this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2025
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[–] frazw@lemmy.world 118 points 2 days ago (11 children)

I always thought the pledge of allegiance stood out as a bit of a strange brainwashing exercise for the free and fair democracy the United States seeks to be. In fact IMO the nationalism it represents and instils in Americans opened the door to MAGA.

[–] CuriousRefugee@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I know I'm in the minority, but I actually like the pledge, even if it's reminiscent of authoritarianism (and I strongly believe it should be optional). But that's because my interpretation was always "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the [ideals and values of the] republic for which it stands." I viewed it as an affirmation of the commitment by myself to the "liberty and justice for all" we wanted, not as a statement of fact that no matter what the current leadership does, you should be loyal.

All that being said, I could see a contribution of the pledge to an environment of the nationalism or jingoism that led to MAGA. I just don't blame the pledge; I blame the leaders, politicians, media personalities, and individuals that drove MAGA to become mainstream.

[–] klemptor@startrek.website 37 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The biggest problem is that kids are reciting it without understanding the words they're saying or the concepts they convey. When I was a little kid I was just repeating the syllables I was given, with no real idea about what it all meant*. Nobody should take any pledge until they can clearly explain what it means and what it means to them. And obviously a pledge should always be voluntary.

*Same as forcing a kid to go through the sacraments but I digress.

[–] meyotch@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

We actually had civics as part of our curriculum from first grade. I am Gen X. We had lessons in first grade about the meaning of the words. I grew up in an agricultural state and civics lessons were part of state mandated curriculum. They had a unit around election day, explaining what the lawn signs were about.

The lessons were very neutral. I mean teachers are heavily Democratic leaning and a conservative state mandated the curriculum. So they just talked about processes of democracy.

I really don’t think mandated civics education is a bad idea, really. I see many folks who share in the pain of wokeness, but feel totally helpless to act effectively because the entire apparatus of our democracy has not been made clear to them. Now that the apparatus is breaking, it’s hard to work together to fix it.

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