this post was submitted on 12 May 2025

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Installing Linux Doesn't Need to Change. The Experience Does. (peertube.wtf)

submitted 4 days ago by meldrik@lemmy.wtf to c/linux@lemmy.ml

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[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

i am evaluating endless os (basic install, not the kitchen sink version) right now. i have bunch of soon-to-be obsolete desktops and laptops i need to find something other than windows to load. i am very impressed so far. it's nearly everything i'm looking for for these systems and their future home users.

it's nearly as 'simple' as a chromebook but is based on debian, so it can do more than chromeos. but because of the ostree base, verified flatpak applications, and simplified desktop and ui, it's a lot harder for a typical home user to 'break' than windows.

the 'full' endless install with lots of extra programs and offline content might pick up a few fans, too. parts of my area still don't have faster-than-dialup internet available.

i had been set on peppermint for the lowest spec'd systems (things like c2d 4gb/hdd) and cinnamint for the others (mostly 2nd-6th gen, 4-8gb, some have sata ssd), but endless might just end up on everything unless someone specifically requests different.

[–] wakko@lemmy.world 53 points 3 days ago (22 children)

Oh look. Yet another post demanding things from a volunteer-based community without actually volunteering their own time to work on solving the problem they're insisting needs solving.

I'm sure these demands will totally make a difference in ways that putting their time into actually writing code wouldn't.

[–] Abnorc@lemm.ee 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think it should be encouraged for non technical users to share their insights regarding UI/UX. People who are skilled in building applications often don’t have great skills in that area anyway. Actual UI/UX specialists are even harder to come by it seems.

The issue with this video is that it doesn’t bring in a ton of new insight. Issues regarding the variety of package management solutions are well know for example, and some distros are already solving this by having system packages and flatpaks managed by the same installer.

[–] wakko@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Correct. There are actual efforts going on to resolve those issues. Which begs the question, why post vague exhortations for people to "do something" about this, rather than focusing the efforts in places where it will make a difference?

This isn't a post saying "hey, come to this project and pitch in." This post is just bitching into the ether and then some folks getting butthurt when the pointless performative nonsense is called out for what it is.

Posts like this one happen on a near-daily basis all across FOSS mailing lists. It's trivial to find numerous, often young, often inexperienced people who think their idea is the one that "fixes everything". These people reason that everyone should fall over one another to put effort into their magical idea once they see the obviousness and correctness of the idea. Clearly, it's simply incorrect to find fault in an obviously perfect idea such as this one.

It's just so weird that literally none of the people with these amazing ideas are the ones doing a "git init" and getting started on the work of actually implementing their amazing ideas. Bizarre how so many spectacular, world-changing ideas need to be worked on by literally anyone BUT their champion. What a horrible world we must live in filled with nasty, evil people who simply won't volunteer their personal time when we should feel so blessed with this holy relic of an idea.

This narrative is so childish that the only response it deserves is the one echoed by nearly the entire FOSS community, "Patches welcome!"

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[–] utopiah@lemmy.ml 82 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Didn't watch the video... but the premise "The biggest barrier for the new Linux user isn't the installer" is exactly why Microsoft is, sadly, dominating the end-user (not servers) market.

What Microsoft managed to do with OEMs is NOT to have an installer at all! People buy (or get, via their work) a computer and... use it. There is not installation step for the vast majority of people.

I'm not saying that's good, only that strategy wise, if the single metric is adoption rate, no installer is a winning strategy.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 36 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Most people who go out and buy a computer doesn't understand what an OS is. If Linux was standard when you bought a PC, it would be the dominating OS. I mean, you could switch the OS to Linux on the computers and I think most people wouldn't realise when they buy it lol

[–] utopiah@lemmy.ml 25 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Indeed, so my argument is that sure a "better" installer might change a small fraction of the marketshare, say 1%, but it's not enough to change significantly, say 10% or even reach parity.

An interesting example is the Steam Deck coming with Linux installed. Sure there are few people who do (by choice) install Windows alongside Linux but AFAIK the vast majority do not. That's IMHO particularly interesting on a topic, gaming, where Windows has been traditionally the #1 reason people picked a specific OS.

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[–] oshu@lemmy.world 66 points 4 days ago (9 children)

The vast majority of people have no experience installing an OS and likely never will.

The typical user uses whatever is preinstalled when the get the hardware.

My father-in-law wrecked his windows pc with malware over and over so I bought him a Wow PC https://www.mywowcomputer.com/ and he loves it. I don't think he has any idea its running linux.

[–] paequ2@lemmy.today 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

How do updates work with WOW computers? Or does the software just never get updated? Or do you just update the computer for him every now and then? What distro is this using underneath?

[–] oshu@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago

The updates are automatic. They seem to have rolled their own desktop environment. Not sure which distro. The main selling point was that I don't need to maintain it for him. I am registered as his "tech buddy" so they contact me if something needs to be done hands on. In 3 years no issues/calls so far.

[–] HelloRoot@lemy.lol 12 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

From the website landing page :

New programs and updates are provided automatically for the life of your WOW! Computer.

From https://www.mywowcomputer.com/open-source/

Distro is based on tiny core

The source files can be found by following 3 links deep to https://www.telikin.com/source/ doesn't look like they include their frontend though, which might be proprietary, idk.

(you lazy bastard /j)

[–] Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 4 days ago

Yeah, I was just thinking this needs a lot more upfront info. I mean, kudos for the site that harkens back to the 90's infomercial era and keeping it comfortable for those generations, but a page with some specs and actual info would go nicely with that.

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[–] Ironfist79@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Which Linux? The installation process for most distributions these days is pretty simple.

[–] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 19 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (9 children)

Just saying, not my experience. I have used linux for over 25 years and nontechnical users in my family have also for almost 20 years. By in large it has worked just fine.

The big issue is Linux is not the OS that is supplied when people go to the store and buy something (well except for Android and Chromebooks which are Linux and are popular). It is also not the system or have the apps their friends use. It also does not have the huge supply, support, and word of mouth ecosystem. Buying hardware especially addons is confusing. Getting support is hard unless you have friends that use. Buying Linux preinstalled often costs more. Change too is hard and there has to be some driver and for most people there is not.

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