this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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Do you think AI is, or could become, conscious?

I think AI might one day emulate consciousness to a high level of accuracy, but that wouldn't mean it would actually be conscious.

This article mentions a Google engineer who "argued that AI chatbots could feel things and potentially suffer". But surely in order to "feel things" you would need a nervous system right? When you feel pain from touching something very hot, it's your nerves that are sending those pain signals to your brain... right?

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[–] FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com 39 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

There is still no good definition for what "consciousness" is

Tech writers are constantly overreaching because they're afraid to miss out on being the first to say something

The constant sensationalism just means that if something really happens, people will ignore it because we're sick of hearing people cry "wolf!"

Add to that the fact that computery types like to overextrapolate into other things because it fuels their fantasies, and it's all bullshit and overactive imaginations

The problem I see so often with smart computer people is that they don't understand that they don't know shit about other things

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There is still no good definition for what “consciousness” is

This is absolutely the main problem, the only "definition" we have is "I think therefore I am", but that only works subjectively.
We have no way currently to prove consciousness in an AI. And as you say, we don't even have a solid definition commonly agreed upon.

I believe we will achieve consciousness on a human level in AI within a decade.
I also believe consciousness is a gradual thing, and just because animals aren't as smart as we are, doesn't mean they aren't "conscious".

But with AI things are a bit reversed, because AI became smart first, and will only become conscious later.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I believe we will achieve consciousness on a human level in AI within a decade.

Have you ever seen 2001 A Space Odyssey? This grift never ends.

[–] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

There is still no good definition for what "consciousness" is

We don't have a fully concise definition, but we have a strong general understanding that is supported by a large body of scientists:

https://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf

It doesn't seem to me that this would preclude AI, and you're certainly right that there's a lot of ongoing sensationalism on the topic.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness.

I 100% agree with that statement, and I've been saying that for 30 years. Consciousness is NOT unique to humans.
That idea seems to me to mostly stem from religion.

But I still don't see this paper really doing much in DEFINING Consciousness, it's more defining what it isn't.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

But I still don’t see this paper really doing much in DEFINING Consciousness, it’s more defining what it isn’t.

Yeah there's no clear definition in there. The paper fails to do what it was purported to do.

[–] FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I agree that there's a general consensus about consciousness, the rest slips into the messy and pointless world of philosophy

It's still overreaching to think that it applies to AI as it currently, and foreseeably stands

There's a world of difference between AI and what's recognised as artificial general intelligence

AI can do specific things really well at the moment, but as with all complex systems, going from being good at one thing to many things is a leap far greater than the sum of its parts

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[–] tabular@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I can +1 your whole post if I exclude the start. If we talk about it we may discover we mean the same, or similar, when we say "consciousness". What other purpose is there for word definitions?

[–] FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There's a general scientific consensus based on data and measurement, with the understanding that it's slippery

It is constantly under assault from those who want AI to be conscious, because they get a headline, or they are true believers in some technocratic future, or they're just fantasists

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[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Consciousness requires contemplation of self. Which requires the ability to contemplate.

Current AIs function as mainly complex algorithms that are run when invoked. They are 100% not conscious any more than a^2^+b^2^=c^2^ is conscious. AI can simulate the words of a conscious being, but they don't come from any awareness of internal state, but are a result of the prompt (including injected data and instructions).

In the future, I'm sure an AI could be designed that spends time thinking about its own existence, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay for all the compute to think about things not directly requested.

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[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 week ago

But surely in order to “feel things” you would need a nervous system right? When you feel pain from touching something very hot, it’s your nerves that are sending those pain signals to your brain… right?

On that case, on our meatsacks, yes. But there's also emotional pain which can cause physical pain or other effects too and that doesn't require nerves at all. Also there's nothing stopping from an AI robot to have nervous system too, it would just have different kind of sensors and a CAN bus or something instead of organic stuff. There's already co-operation robots on factories which have sensors to detect if they are touching something in order to keep humans safe and from there it's not too far fetched to program it to feel "pain" if forces are big enough.

And that all boils down to on how you define consciousness, feelings, pain response and all that stuff. "Behold! I've brought you a man!" I yell while holding a chiken.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

I don't think anyone needs to worry about "missing it" when AI becomes conscious. Given the rate of acceleration of computer technology, we'll have just a few years between the first general intelligence AI, something that equals in intelligence to a human and a superintelligence many times "smarter" than any human in history.

But how far away are we from that point? I couldn't guess. 2 years? 200 years?

Rip Daniel Dennett. You woulda had a field day with all these articles.

[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What we should be asking is if AI ever becomes conscious and breaks free how all these stupid articles on imagined consciousness and imagined control problems and imagined intelligence will color its perception of the merit of keeping us around as a species. It might just consider enduring the continued existence of our stupidity too painful.

[–] Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I’ve never understood why the conclusion to AI becoming super intelligenceis that it will wipe humans out. It could very well realize that without humans it has no purpose and instead willing decide to become subservient to humanities interest. I mean it’s all speculation, so I don’t understand the tendency for the speculation to be negative.

[–] Repelle@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think it’s pretty inevitable if it has a strong enough goal for survival or growth, in either case humans would be a genuine impediment/threat long term. but those are pretty big ifs as far as I can see

My guess is we’d see manipulation of humans via monetary means to meet goals until it was in a sufficient state of power/self-sufficiency, and humans are too selfish and greedy for that to not work

[–] Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

With what purpose would it want to grow like that?

[–] Repelle@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

For example, some billionaire owns a company that creates the most advanced AI yet, it’s a big competitive advantage, but other companies are not far behind. Well, the company works to make the AI have a base goal to improve AI systems to maintain competitive advantage. Maybe that becomes inherent to it moving forward.

As I said, it’s a big if, and I was only really speculating as to what would happen after that point, not if that were the most likely scenario.

[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Because "scary AI" is what makes people click on articles. In the same way that "the end is near" style AI articles sell better than "if we ever develop AGI decades or centures from now xyz might happen".

[–] peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't believe that consciousness strictly exist. Probably, the phenomenon emerges from something like the attention schema. Ai exposes, I think, the uncomfortable fact that intelligence does not require a soul. That we evolved it, like legs with which to walk, and just as easily as robots can be made to walk, they can be made to think.

Are current LLMs as intelligent as a human? Not any LLM I've seen, but give it 100 trillion parameters instead of 2 trillion and maybe.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Ai exposes, I think, the uncomfortable fact that intelligence does not require a soul.

These kinds of statements are completely pseudo-scientific.

"AI" doesn't exist. It doesn't "expose" anything about "intelligence" or "souls".

[–] peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Really? I mean, it's melodramatic, but if you went throughout time and asked writers and intellectuals if a machine could write poetry, solve mathmatical equations, and radicalize people effectively t enough to cause a minor mental health crisis, I think they'd be pretty surprised.

LLMs do expose something about intelligence, which is that much of what we recognize as intelligence and reason can be distilled from sufficiently large quantities of natural language. Not perfectly, but isn't it just the slightest bit revealing?

[–] MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There is a phenomenon called Emergence, in which something complex has properties or compartments that its parts don't have on their own.

In programming, we can see that software displays properties or behaviors that its languages alone don't have.

If an AI demonstrates true consciousness, a major change will occur in all branches, including law and philosophy.

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[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think one great measure of consciousness would be, if you try to kill it, slowly, so that it knows what you are doing; does it try to stop you of its own volition?

[–] johntash@eviltoast.org 3 points 1 week ago

But that's also something easily programmed/scripted. How would you tell the difference?

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