i think this topic has about run its course in terms of productiveness, and has mostly devolved into people complaining about being held to (objectively correct) vegan ethics. locking
this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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The 2 trillion figure is the minimum: it could be more than 6 trillion every year, and the elephant in the room is that more than half of those are factory farmed - which means humans are responsible for torturing them their entire lives.
"for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka" - Isaac Bashevis Singer
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TL;DR, they physiology is pretty similar to someone filling your lungs with a saline solution, but slower because they're cold blooded.
When you consider this, that most plastic comes from fishing, and that modern day slavery is heavily present in it (no police on a boat, and hard to escape) I actually have more respect for meat eaters than pescitarians. Don't eat seafood, folks.
How would you ethically kill fish? For animals you could raise them to be old and live decent lives in a free range area and kill them with a stunner, but what about fishes?
Also, what are some good alternatives to fishes for your diet?
Can you ethically kill your dog when they want to live?
You can make fish alternatives with carrots, tofu, jackfruit, seitan, oyster king mushrooms, chickpeas, tempeh, anti choke.
https://proveg.com/uk/fish-alternatives-10-vegan-substitutes-to-fish-caviar-and-other-seafood/
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Edit: CW Don’t read if you don’t want descriptions of death of fish
Different ethical systems presume different things. That aside, I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering. So it you’re going to fish, there are ways to minimise suffering of catch. It really depends your setup. But obviously the number one thing is do everything in your power to only catch things you will eat. Secondly, when you do catch something, don’t let it asyphixiate slowly to death. You can do a clean cut around the gill arches or the caudal artery. Which will hit the main veines and drop blood pressure to the brain really quick (very very quick death), this is also useful because then the fish bleeds out which prevents blood pooling in the meat from turning it rotten. Some people prefer to stun the fish before any cutting at all, so the first thing they will do, is hit something hard on the fish’s head which will immediately render it unconscious, then cut the arteries.
The whole asphyxiation to death is really the worst because it takes many many minutes and fish go through things like lungs collapsing and blood clotting which bring immense pain before being unconscious.
I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering.
that's just not true. the only ethical system i know of that holds this axiom is utilitarianism, and that is fraught with issues from epistemics to the fact it can be summarized "the ends justify the means"
Stop abusing animals and do better. Eating animals is wrong, unhealthy and horrible for the environment. Stop making excuses for your nonsense.
Stop abusing animals
i don't, and your accusation is not appropriate.
I think it's appropriate given your blase attitude towards the suffering non-human animals.
Yet you belittle the animals at every chance you get, someone wouldn't go through all the trouble of doing that if they didn't care about their image reflecting poorly to their peers. You do everything you can to hold yourself and humanity back rather than admit you're wrong and owe up to your mistakes. Such a poor character without substance. Drop the gaslighting and animal products now!
you can't kill ethically a fish, cow, pig, dog, etc.
sometimes there are "humane" times you have to kill, for some reason, another animal, because they are really suffering and it's impossible to bring them to health. anything else, is unnecessary.
There are a lot of alternatives for a plant based diet, and being healthy, you have to be informed to know what to eat, and with which thing combine it (rice and beans, together, are a complete protein). there is tofu, seitan, different types of grains and legumes that are protein complete or that you can complete between them
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