this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] Artisian@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Makes me think of this upcoming competition to find fossils that are not surrounded by the rocks that science expects.

I suspect a lot of people who believe (some subset of) the crazy nonsense are actually science inclined. But we (often/used to) teach science as about great people heroically defying the consensus and triggering a paradigm shift that changes the world. And that looks a lot more like vaccine denialism than pipetting samples for 50 hours. Some of the community spaces are clearly interested in thinking about the world, and there's a self-isolating effect of asking someone

"Why is there a tree that's fossilized across 5 different epochs of bedrock?"

and being told you're a crank. Then layer on the grifters.

So yes; do remember to talk people through the facts before labeling them a conspiracy theorists, and focus on the shared amazement at how weird/complicated/nuanced the data is. Ask lots of questions!

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 144 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I feel like media literacy is more useful for preventing this crap than a scientific education would be, though both help to some degree.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip 88 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Sure, but a fundamental understanding of the basics, across all disciplines (science , history, literature, and math) helps one spot bullshit from a mile away. Science especially helps apply math and critical thinking.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

IMHO, understanding the Scientific Method and, maybe more importantly, why it is as it is (so, understanding things like Confirmation Bias - including that we ourselves have it without noticing it, which skews our perception, recollection and conclusions - as well as Logical Falacies) is what makes the most difference in how we mentally handle data, information and even offered knowledge from the outside.

PS: Also more broadly in STEM, the structured and analytical way of thinking in those areas also helps in things like spotting logical inconsistencies, circular logic and other such tricks to make the illogical superficially seem logical.

Even subtle but common Propaganda techniques used in the modern age are a lot more obvious once one is aware of one's one natural biases and how these techniques act on and via those biases, purposefully avoiding logic.

Personally I feel that that's the part of my training in Science (which I never finished, since I changed the degree I was taking from Physics to EE half way) is what makes me a bit more robust (though not immune: none of us are, IMHO) to Propaganda.

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[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Science is powerful but, as you've stated, balance is most critical. It was one of the most impactful biologists of the modern era that wrote "the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races" based on his theory of natural selection.

As you can imagine, statements like these were used to justify the Atlantic slave trade, the genocide of indigineous people ie. "manifest destiny" and other colonial era horrors.

One should not treat science or the words of scientists as absolute truth. Unfortunately it is not free from human greed or corruption.

[–] wander1236@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I would argue the latter is a good way to learn the former

[–] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yep, maths and science are only partially about learning maths and science. The even more important purpose is learning critical reasoning skills, which is a requirement for media literacy.

[–] rockerface@lemmy.cafe 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Exactly, it's not about memorising formulas and facts, but about developing problem solving skills

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When I was studying, I had a problem with a question in class and I asked the teacher and he, instead of giving me an answer or a tip, told me "Naturally I can explain it to you, also a second and third time, but soon you will forget it, first try better to find the solution by yourself, if you succeed you will have understood it and you will never forget it for the rest of your life". It was a very good advice until now, almost 60 years after it. The need of help from others is always good, but only as last resource.

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[–] Sc00ter@lemmy.zip 17 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This is something i noticed early on with the generational divide and misinformation on the internet. Older generations never had the internet in school, and this were never taught how to identify a truthful source. Those of us that grew up with the internet were drilled into our heads, "not everything on the internet is true." From both our teachers and the generation who believes everything on the internet.

It was a big sticking point with my in-laws during covid. Theyd send me a link, and 5 minutes later id respond with, "that person never went to any college has no credentials to be commenting on the scientific and biological effects of vaccines. Here's a published dr saying youre wrong." Only to be met with, "you're an idiot. Go get autism if you want."

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

I think the flip side of this is Facebook or wherever the link was pushed to your in-laws (which is what I'd guess happened) feels... empowering. Those apps are literally optimized, with billions of dollars (and extensive science, especially psychology), to validate folk's views in the pursuit of keeping them clicking. Their world's telling them they're right; of course your retort will feel offensive and wrong.

They're in a trap.

And I still see lot of scientists posit 'why is this happening?' unironically on Twitter or something, which really frustrates me.

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[–] Zyansheep@programming.dev 8 points 1 week ago

Specifically epistemology and concrete notions of degrees of truth and how truth is approximated by science.

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[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 59 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I studied history (and by that I mean I liked to watch documentaries) and as a kid I saw educational cartoons and Anime (yes anime) that showed how there was a huge backlash against telephone and telegraphy when they first came out. With farmers blaming telegraph wire for destroying crops or crop diseases and they would sometimes even sabotage the wires and poles.

When I heard of the 5G bullshit that was literally what came to mind... it is incredible how eternal this form of ignorance is.

[–] RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

IIRC even a passage of a novel by Giovanni Verga portrays Sicilian farmers discussing how telegraph wires absorb rain

[–] Sabata11792@ani.social 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The telegraph is turning the fricken frogs gay.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

A 19th century Alex Jones sketch coming right up...

"Gentlemen (and ladies please leave for it is not for your dainty hearts!) These devilish wires that are held upon stakes that plunge into the heart of God's green earth are doing far more than blighting our crops and potatoes! It is this same wire that I have good sources on (show them the papers, John!) *John on another podium waves blank paper piles like they mean something * that afflicted the Irish potato that lead those heathen Catholics to come over here, lorded over by their prince in Rome whose true master is the Jews!

And the main concern on all good Christian minds from these devilish telegraph wire is that they send an evil miasma that has been proven beyond all doubt (John! The proof!) That they even make the beasts of the land and water stray from the path God has lain forth and has sent them onto the path of SODOM! Gentlemen! They have turned the frogs onto sodomites!

But fear not, I have a tonic that will prevent all manner of evil from entering your heart! For but a nickel I have pint flask of the Jones invigorator! Guaranteed to ensure proper masculine strength and function, with the ladies never questioning you, and thus rendering no need to beat them to prevent them from straying onto the path of sapphistry!"

[–] psud@aussie.zone 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

At least you got a bit of cocaine (and lead, and mercury) for your nickel

Drug historians call the years 1870 to 1914 The Great Binge for a reason...

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[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 56 points 1 week ago (7 children)

I have no scientific education. I am still not retarded enough to believe any of the nonsensical conspiracies found online.

Could it be that the key here is media competence and not a doctors degree?

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I've worked with doctors who believe this shit. When this all kicked off, they immediately discarded their education to embrace the Fox dogma.

Area of study is definitely not the issue.

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The key is, that for a lot of people reasoning and thinking is a hard work, because never learned it. I remember an interview with a MAGA voter about climate change and his response: "It's a big lie, human beings can't be the cause, because they are not capable of changing God's creation".

[–] autriyo@feddit.org 9 points 1 week ago

Tbh, reasoning and thinking is hard work, even if you learned how to.

And it's getting increasingly harder to find reliable information, so you have to check the sources of your sources. And at some point down the rabbit hole stuff gets real complex, and maybe, you still haven't figured out what's true...

So the layman has to trust someone, and in our age of disinformation, someone isn't necessarily trustworthy. So between the day to day struggles and constant indoctrination, I get why people just hear what they want to hear. Still doesn't excuse it though.

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[–] Engywuck@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think it's more about keeping yourself curious and reading stuff form reliable sources than actually getting a degree, which makes little sense. (I'm a physicist, and I'm totally ignorant about physiology, for instance, so I have to trust "people who know", and these aren't usually found on crappy YT or TikTok videos).

[–] expr@programming.dev 10 points 1 week ago

It's not talking about a doctorate, it's talking about actually taking education (of all levels) seriously because education is the primary means by which a populace becomes in innoculated against mis/disinformation.

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

I know quite a few MAGA doctors so I can assure you that a medical degree is not protective.

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[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 53 points 1 week ago (4 children)

the problem is most emphatically not people skipping stuff in school, the problem is that the world is filled with people who have literally researched how to mislead and manipulate people. The only classes i think would actively help protect you against this is history and political science.

We can't expect everyone to be educated in every field so they can recognize misinformation, what we need is for everyone to recognize fascism and general authoritarian methods.

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

To your point, I've met quite a few STEM educated people who fall for this type of misinformation due to lack of historical and political literacy.

Quite a few are also quite disrespectful to the humanities so they tend to be empathetically underdeveloped since they feel their whole life is about producing results and making progress at any cost necessary.

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[–] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 15 points 1 week ago

Appeal to emotions, rather than logic, and if you pull the right lever, that person will get a bias confirmation, feel smarter for knowing something everyone else doesn't and in some cases, feel less insecure for not knowing enough.

I've met people that have a degree or that are even teaching and have the worst baseless believes. It's only a matter of getting to your levers.

[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago

Media literacy and how to validate sources. Unfortunately, the second part was primarily taught in college when I was still in school.

Critical thinking is very difficult to teach. Its so much easier for people to just accept whatever confirms their current preconceived notion. It also requires that the person is both open to learning new things and that they are open to the idea that they may be wrong, misinformed, or not know everything.

So many people are simply over confident about their own knowledge.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 39 points 1 week ago (4 children)

the problem is that critical thinking should be a reflex and not a mental effort

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 13 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It doesn't help that there is way too much shitty, agenda-funded science today. And science we aren't supposed to question. And science driven entirely by profit. Like, isn't questioning science part of science? Of course the response is completely unreasonable too. All of my family are research scientists, and if a discovery doesn't meet capitalistic goals, is it even a discovery at this point?

[–] Soleos@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's why you teach philosophy and critical thinking. Science will follow if that's the kid's interest. But learning to be being self-aware of your own position amongst others, including the position of Science, is key.

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[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 26 points 1 week ago (3 children)

i think that conspiracy theories are more about feeling special about knowing some secret knowledge, lots of people fall for this and even create conspiracy theories without realizing, no matter how smart they are

[–] Sc00ter@lemmy.zip 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Kelly johnson designed the SR71 Blackbird because he was given the alien tech from rosswell new mexico to reverse engineer! No other way could the government trust 1 man with a blank check book and complete authority and have the plane designed and flying in such a short amount of time!

-my favorite conspiracy theory

[–] BootLoop@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

If it wasn't alien tech, we would've built a faster plane by now.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 7 points 1 week ago

(I get that you're playing into the conspiracy) the reason we haven't is speed isn't good enough anymore, you cannot build a plane that can outrun a missile

So the focus changed to stealth

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[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ah so close. This comic should end with

"I did my own research"

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[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 20 points 1 week ago

When I was a senior in high school, I needed one more science credit for graduation, so I took Human Anatomy. It was taught by a young hippie (it was the 70s), who also taught the exact same course at the local community college.

It was a great class, with lots of cool labs, experiments, and dissections. We had to memorize every bone, and every muscle. It was one of the hardest classes I've ever taken, but also the most fun.

That class was filled with future doctors and nurses, so none of them were whining about how they'd never use this stuff. But I wasn't on a medical track (I was a music history major), and I could have probably said that (I didn't), but I have used the knowledge I gained in that class literally every single day of my life, decades later. Easily one of the best classes I took in my entire life.

[–] waldo_was_here@piefed.social 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Dunning-Kruger effect in full force in a land called Distopia States of Amerika

[–] kamenlady@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Not only there, it's a world wide phenomenon. I keep hearing this kind of shit from people here in Germany and my family in Brazil.

[–] waldo_was_here@piefed.social 11 points 1 week ago

Same here in Belgium

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[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I will argue this is not the problem. It's that vaccines were too good in their effectiveness. A victim of their own success.

The problem is not and has not been science. The problem is messaging.

This is the same reason why anti-vax is so popular, you think that's about science? It's idiots like RFK Jr and Trump have the ear of people. It's all messaging folks.

A person is smart. People are dumb.

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[–] BilSabab@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (4 children)

the bigger problem is that some teachers are so mentally checked out that they make those subjects actively unappealing. I wonder what makes them that way...

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It's a big problem, more if in the education system is based only on the in the accumulation of data and on the other hand without putting priorities in reasoning, worse when science is strongly influenced by absurd religious beliefs. They want usefull and submissive subjects, not thinking people.

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[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I've seen a lot of the counter balance to this which is STEM folk not having respect for the humanities, rendering them empathetically underdeveloped.

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[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

People need to learn how to build a "firewall" for their brain.

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[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

Well the new world order is what the people in power want, but they only need smartphones and tv to do it. No chips in the brain needed, people are idiots.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

If smart people are so smart, why aint they in charge? Checkmate nerds!

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