this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2023
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Neurodivergence

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All things neurodivergent and relating to the broader neurodivergent community (and communities).

See also this community's sister subs Feminism, LGBTQ+, Disability, and POC


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

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Disclaimer: I have no quarrel with the mods using the term in the creation of this community. I understand why they chose it, as even if they share my disagreement with the term when applied to ADHD, there's not really a better inclusive term. "Mental illness" is really the only other option, and naming a community that would probably invite darker discussions that the mods might not be prepared to handle.

Another disclaimer: I think the term is perfectly valid when applied to autism, as autism is not, to the best of my knowledge, a mental illness so much as a difference in processing. Being autistic is only "bad" in the sense that our society discourages autistic traits. (Apologies if this is wrong; I'm neither autistic nor especially knowledgeable about autism.)

The term "neurodivergent" implies that there's nothing wrong with you if you have ADHD--you're just special and different. But my ADHD is an illness that requires treatment. A lot of people will tell you that the only reason ADHDers struggle is because society is set up wrong, but I don't think that's true, at least for me. Being unable to remember anything, unable to self-start, and hypersensitive to rejection would be massive problems in any world. Sure, the world today is particularly brutal for ADHDers in a way we could probably mitigate if we reorganized society to be kinder, but that doesn't mean ADHD isn't ultimately a disorder that some people need to treat with medication and therapy.

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[–] Lowbird@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (14 children)

It's not that we don't think ADHD is a disability; it's that we're more convinced by the social modal of disability than the "there is just something fundamentally wrong with your brain" modal.

For me, it causes me a LOT of problems, but I think most of those problems are looped around each other and exaggerated by society, and by the resulting secondary, problem-compounding problems that tend to pile up on top of adhd like depression, anxiety, cptsd, low self esteem, poor diet and sleep, and so on and on.

I see it exactly the same way I see autism. Not fundamentally bad, even though it absolutely causes issues. Autistic people, for example, run into heaps and heaps of trouble because of the difficulty they have communicating with more neurotypical people. They might miss subtle social cues and be ostracized, or be very direct to the point of being seen as rude, and get ostracized or fired from jobs and so on.

Meanwhile, off meds, I miss subtle social cues because I can't always look at someone's facial expressions and talk at the same time, and maybe there's a song or an anxiety loop or a previous conversation topic stuck in my head. Or I can't talk coherently because I think of a whole wordcloud of an answer all at once and can't pick a linear route through it fast enough. It's not so different, imo. The reasons are different but the resulting problem is the same, more or less.

And both ADHD and autistic folks experience sensory issues.

I suspect if there were meds that helped autistic folks the way meds can help many adhd folks, people would probably view it more the same way. Or if ADHD meds didn't exist and we just had to exist without them.

Even as it is, autism is so much more stigmatized than unmedicated ADHD. If ADHD is an illness, and autism is not an illness but is a stigmatized but normal brain difference, why do autistic folks usually seem to have the harder time in the world? Why is society's shitty response to adhd "ignore it, it doesn't exist", while its shitty response for autism is to widely adopt a child abusive "therapy" invented by the guy who invented gay conversion "therapy"?

I get tired of the people insisting we don't have huge struggles or count for disability help, too. But tbh I also get sick of being told my brain is broken and that my adhd is an illness, because I don't think mine is. I think it's just different, albeit in an often very inconvenient way. But I see upsides to it too. I don't think I would trade-in for a neurotypical brain, to be honest, despite all the problems. I like the creativity and the non-linearity of thought and the outside-the-box thinking and the hyperfocus adventures. I like my neurodivergent friends and the way our socialization works amongst each other. And I do have the meds, which help a lot with the problems.

For my, and my own adhd, it's both a positive neurodivergence and a disability. Not an either-or.

All that said, I kinda don't think "neurotypicals" per se actually exist, especially when accounting for the really dramatic plasticity of even adult brains, and the way experiences and thought patterns can and do continually change the structure of the human brain. And ADHD folks share symptoms with a lot of mental illnesses that aren't considered neurodivergent normally.

Talking about neurodivergence is helpful because it's a more positive and less medicalized lens for looking at things, in my opinion. I like it. But the neurodivergent/neurotypical binary idea can also become a problem.

Anyways. Different peoples' experiences with adhd can differ a lot. If you see yours purely as medical disability, that's a-okay with me, and you don't have to describe yourself as neurodivergent, but I don't see mine that way.

Perhaps on all sides of this we could benefit from being more careful not to describe other peoples' adhd in authoritative tones based on our own. Like, I agree not to call your adhd neurodivergent, and you agree not to call mine an illness? (Tbh I think you did a good job in your post of talking about yourself rather than talking for others.)

/ramble I half-feel like deleting and might later but at this point I've committed too much so here you go I guess

Edit: also there's so much overlap between autism and adhd I've heard some talk, sometimes, about whether they might be best classified as two forms of the same thing. shrug The science is still sciencing on this one.

[–] DJDarren@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

I kinda don’t think “neurotypicals” per se actually exist

The more I learn about my own ADHD, and my wife's ASD, the more convinced I am of this. There's no such thing as "neurotypical", just people that are better able to exist under society's rules than others. Every one of us is the result of the experiences that have led us to where we are this moment in time, of all the neurones that have fired up and formed pathways to give us the skills and abilities and disabilities that make us who we are.

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[–] Parsnip8904@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Neurodivergent is a technical term that denotes that your brain is wired outside the norm. It doesn't actually say anything about if it has a medical diagnosis attached or not.

I found the second part kind of funny because executive function deficit, issues with hypersensitivity, extreme empathy, struggle with impulse control and so on, are all things that people with ASD struggle with.

[–] Kamirose@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yup, people with ASD, OCD, and CPTSD also struggle with these issues. They tend to be mis-diagnosed with other conditions on the list fairly frequently.

Side note: If you're diagnosed with ADHD but stimulants make your symptoms worse, consider being evaluated for OCD instead. That was something a friend of mine experienced.

[–] Lowbird@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The fact that cPTSD, and other mental illnesses, can cause many of the same problems as "from birth hardwired" neurodivergences, does make me tend to consider mentally ill folks as a type of neurodivergent too, personally. The difference is they might one day no longer have cPTSD, I guess, but one might as well say they're neurodivergent now and might not be later.

Neurodivergent is one of those terms I find both very useful and very misleading, in that I don't think "neurotypicals" really exist in the way people talk about them.

[–] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

I think it's best to think of it as an umbrella term much like queer, where it's just an acknowledgement of the diversity of human life and helping others to understand that you may think, behave, and act a bit differently than most people.

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