this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 132 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

I've said it before, but this is a 20-year-old problem.

After Y2K, all those shops that over-porked on devs began shedding the most pricey ones; worse in 'at will' states.

Who were those devs? Mentors. They shipped less code, closed fewer tickets, cost more, but their value wasn't in tickets and code: it was investing in the next generation. And they had to go because #numbersGoUp

And they left. And the first gen of devs with no mentorship joined and started their careers. No idea about edge cases, missing middles or memory management. No lint, no warnings, build and ship and fix the bugs as they come.

And then another generation. And these were the true 'lost boys' of dev. C is dumb, C++ is dumb, perl is dumb, it's all old, supply chain exploits don't exist, I made it go so I'm done, fuck support, look at my numbers. It's all low-attention span, baling wire and trophies because #numbersGoUp.

And let's be fair: they're good at this game, the new way of working where it's a fast finish, a head-pat, and someone else's problem. That's what the companies want, and that's what they built.

They say now that relying on Ai makes one never really exercise critical thought and problem-solving, and I see it when I'm forced to write fucking YAML for fucking Ansible. I let the GPTs do that for me, without worrying that I won't learn to code YAML for Ansible. Coding YAML for Ansible is NEVER going to be on my list of things I want to remember. But we're seeing people do that with actual work; with go and rust code, and yeah, no concept of why we want to check for completeness let alone a concept of how.

What do we do, though?

If we're in a position to do so, FAIL some code reviews on corner cases. Fail some reviews on ISO27002 and supply chain and role sep. Fail some deployments when they're using dev tools in prod. And use them all as teachable moments. Honestly, some of them got no mentorship in college if they went, and no mentorship in their first ten years as a pro. It's going to be hard getting over themselves, but the sooner they realise they still have a bunch to learn, the better we can rebuild coders. The hardest part will be weaning them off GPT for the cheats. I don't have a solution for this.

One day these new devs will proudly install a patch in the RTOS flashed into your heart monitor and that annoying beep will go away. Sleep tight.

[–] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

and I see it when I'm forced to write fucking YAML for fucking Ansible. I let the GPTs do that for me, without worrying that I won't learn to code YAML for Ansible. Coding YAML for Ansible is NEVER going to be on my list of things I want to remember.

Feels like this is the attitude towards programming in general nowadays.

To be fair, YAML sucks. It's a config language that someone thought should cover everything, but excel at nothing.

Just use TOML, JSON, or old-school INI. YAML will just give you an aneurism. Use the best tool for the job, which is often not the prettiest one.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Kids these days with their fancy stuff, you don't need all that to write good software. YAML is the quintessential "jack of all trades, master of none" nonsense. It's a config file, just make it easy to parse and document how to edit it. That's it.

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