this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2025
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Source?
It runs x11, the wayland port is going insanely slow, x11 has the following problems every time:
It may support these someday, maybe. But progress is absurdly slow. Considering cinnamon has fewer changes as a whole than just the KDE text editor alone, kde is a significantly better choice if you want a well-supported, bug-free and feature rich experience.
And Wayland isn't very well tested yet. We should only give a very well tested display server to very new users. They must not get a bad impression
That would've been true 5 years ago. Wayland is plenty tested these days, give me some data indicating the rate of issues is significantly higher and I'll agree, elsewise I think the most secure well supported option is the best one. X11 is being deprecated left and right for a reason.
gnome is wayland by default, kde is wayland by default, even XFCE is transitioning to wayland at this point... that's just not a valid argument in the modern era.
If it's still being tested, then it isn't for very new users
It's well out of the testing phase and used by default on both major desktops.
Testing phase, not stable phase (yet).
Do you have evidence of this?
Old NVIDIA series (not wayland problem but very new users will blame wayland because old NVIDIA series are work on Xorg), VNC
Vnc works perfectly, and I think we're talking 10 or more years old with the nvidia thing...
Oh, it is work. Good then
Yup
The nvidia thing is also a problem for x.org
No, all NVIDIA is works well on Xorg
I thought you were referring to having to install ancient drivers that are no longer properly supported, that is still a problem on x.org, but if we use nouveau, the problems go away for the most part.
it appears the only real issue with nvidia drivers from back then on wayland is accelerated xwayland according to the arch wiki. I don't think we shouldn't be recommending wayland because over 10 year old gpus have a relatively minor issue but still work.
Sure, if you have ancient hardware, I actually recommend XFCE, but outside of this one niche case, it's not wise to be recommending it.
Once steam and proton/wine get rid of xwayland... there won't be many xwayland apps that are used on a daily basis, however, when that happens, I don't think this will still stand.
Linux is popular because it is old hardware friendly
And it still is. Being expected to use slightly different software when you're using a 10+ year old hardware setup is not weird. Furthermore, this is an issue with the nvidia driver support, which is proprietary, the open source drivers have no such problems. And again, this will be nearly completely solved once steam/proton stop needing xwayland.
Yes, it isn't weird. The problem is you want people to leave Xorg meanwhile NVK hasn't finished yet
...the vast majority of beginners do not have 10+ year old hardware.
I want everyone except those who use 10+ year old hardware to move, and in fact, that's exactly what i've recommended in the past.
here I am making that exact recommendation:
https://lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz/post/53716147/18224187
We shouldn't be recommending things for a tiny niche, we should be recommending what's best on average, and as we learn about the specific needs of a user, then recommend things specifically for that user.
In western countries
...you mean western countries where nvidia gpu's are the most common?
If we're including beginners in developing countries this is even less common of an issue, when I was in india, not a single person I helped with tech had a graphics card, why would they have a 470xx series driver gpu and not an integrated system? It's not even the cheapest choice. I recently built a PC in india, coincidentally, and we ended up going with an integrated system for a gaming PC.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
i mean, look at these stats, it's such a minority it's hardly worth mention. You'll probably say "these are just the steam stats, most of them aren't on steam anyway!" But if they're not using steam/proton... they almost definitely aren't using xwayland anyway so the issues don't apply to them in the first place.
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5204/~/list-of-kepler-series-geforce-desktop-gpus
compare that to the list on the hardware survey and you'll see how unbelievably rare this problem actually is. They don't even make the list, it's less than a 1% issue.
For you
I demonstrated that was statistically false
For you again
...no, it's a statistical fact, look at my sources.
Fact for you
My source is a survey with thousands of respondants, your source is dude just trust me. It's a fact, you can cover your ears and go lalala but it changes nothing
Fact for you again
No, it's a fact for everyone.
read: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
Why did you edit your comment?
because I realized I could improve it and you hadn't replied yet, I just added the link to kepler gpus
Ohh really? I don't trust people like you
Why?