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Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
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On any of the donation threads where it came up and he replied to it, the most he ever did was some half hearted corporate PR "apology" (ironic)
I love how if it's controversial is now a controversial topic.
-sigh- It isn't about IF it's controversial, but WHY it is seen that way. Conservatism requires a minority to use as a boogeyman that needs defeated. They use this manufactured scare as a way to get votes and power.
It has been the tactic ever since Feudalism fell as a way to get back the power they held back then.
I'm ignoring your previous statements to reach out in good faith and hope for the best. Don't give in to the propaganda that trans people are more likely to commit crimes than the greater population. Instead, they are more likely to be the victims, and the laws passed to hurt them end up hurting cis people as well.
I got absolutely nothing against adults doing whatever the fuck they want with themselves and other consenting adults.
I'm not a conservative I'm centre left (in Australia, so that's probably communist by american standards). I take issue with 3 things related to transgenderism (let's hope mentioning them doesn't get me banned).
Everything else I couldn't give a single fuck what u do or what u call urself. Fuck spiders for all I care.
These are all conservative talking points. You've fallen for the propaganda.
please rebuke then
ricecake did: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/18450729
Fairly interesting, though there's not much budging from either of them
Well if its propaganda then it must be provably false.
What's wrong with my point of view?
You could do some research online about all those points if you cared enough to. It's not my job to educate you.
The thing is, you're the person making the claim that they've fallen for propaganda, and therefore you do actually bear the burden of proof for your claims.
I believe you are correct, but I disagree with your idea that it's "not your job to educate" someone when you're telling somebody that the information they have is false without offering the true information to replace it with.
But it isn't my job. If I wanted to make the effort to try to convince them, sure, the onus would be on me, but I don't.
I have that's why I have those views. I've been sent article with headlines that totally debunk my arguments. Then I go read the studies those articles are citing and turns out the studies agree with me.
please list those.
Regarding medical professionals and medical standards, how do you feel about Europe and some countries banning puberty blockers?
I would push back slightly on the term "ban".
The US has parties pushing for a ban, which entails it becoming a punishable offense to offer the treatment to children.
As far as I'm aware, European countries have shifted standards of care in response to changing data, and De-Emphasized the treatment in favor of other avenues.
Although I tend to align with the American academy of pediatrics, as long as it's a reasoned, evidence based conversation developing standards of care that are then applied by the care team working with the patient and their parents it seems appropriate to me. That leaves the standards of "good medicine" in the realm of public experts, and the specifics of treatment to the experts directly working with the person in question and let's them make the appropriate choices and consultation.
So you're fine with Europe blocking/changing/halting/modifying/specifying/altering/excluding the use of puberty blockers?
That's a lot of verbs for a simple answer.
I'm fine with medical experts making medical decisions based on patient needs and scientific consensus.
Scientific consensus is currently in flux because recent studies have conflicted with earlier studies.
Advising that different treatment options take priority while additional research is done isn't wrong.
When elected officials and the general public start dictating what treatments people are allowed to get regardless of medical opinion or patient wishes I start to get concerned that it's less about patient care and more about public opinion.
You took offence at me using the wrong word.
But yeah, at the moment, more and more medical bodies are looking at the effectiveness of puberty blockers and deciding it's detrimental to health.
I took no offense, just explaining that there are too many verbs for me to say "yes" or "no", and so I couldn't reply to your yes or no question other than with a restatement of my feelings.
I see it as a matter of consent. Children can't consent. Simple as that. From my readings (of peer reviewed papers none of which u have managed to cite) the suicide, depression, and self harm risk are not alternated to any degree of statistical confidence by hormonal treatments amongst non adults. Thus delaying treatment until they are adults shouldn't have any adverse risks.
Trans women are significantly overrepresented within heigh level female sports than what would be expected according to statistics. This data is statistically significant enough to show that trans women just happen to be better at sports on average than cis women. The stats don't make any judgements as to why or how they just are. Their are also other papers that have been tracking various data points between cis and trans women over time. Turns out when u look at those graphs u can see the difference in the data grouping very easily. Yes once u normalise for height, weight, muscle mass, and bone mass cis and trans are identical but now I've just shifted the issue to one of trans women having a systematic advantage in height, weight, muscle mass, and bone mass.
Their are truly evil people in this world who will lie, cheat, and corrupt any system for their own benifit. At the moment the barrier to get your gender change recognised by many governments (generalising for the 1st world here obviously) is low enough that corrupting that system for the purposes of exploitation by bad people is too easy.
It's weird how we let children do all sorts of medically warranted things with parental consent under the consultation of a medical professional. It's almost like if consent is the issue, then the entire topic is a non-issue because we've already got a system in place.
You don't need to consent to other people's children's medical care. It's none of your business. Fuck off you nosy bastard.
None of that, or your oft mentioned papers, have anything to do with the fact that it's a vanishingly rare occurrence and not worth caring about. I honestly do not care if a trans woman is better at basketball or not. It's sports, it doesn't really matter unlike "respecting people", which does matter.
As for 3... Has it ever happened? And what does it have to do with transgender people? Do they check your ID for gender on the way into the bathroom? What's to stop a cis man from walking into a woman's bathroom and doing whatever you're afraid of without a disguise? Do you think cross dressing and a wig will make people just let the assault happen?
Do you think women will be more comfortable with a bearded man in the bathroom? Because that's what you're advocating for. If trans women can't use the women's room because a cis man might sneak it, then trans men must use the women's room, which makes it easier for said cis man to sneak in. A cis man looks a lot more like a trans man than a cis man looks like a trans woman.
How concerned are you about making sure that police don't get into women's spaces and commit evil acts? The barrier to becoming a cop is lower than changing your gender, so the path of least resistance is to become a cop. You'll probably get a paid vacation while they investigate your evil too.
And that's not a hypothetical by the way. There are more sexual assaults by on-duty police officers than by trans persons in total, or by trans impersonators. Far more. So if you're concerned for women's safety, start there. Or almost anywhere else, statistically.
sidenote: How are you feeling about the election results? It's quite historic.
I'm pretty happy. 20% of uni debt gone. Should be good for our economy but these fuckers are taking my inheritance.
Better than the alternatives tho.
Nope. But then again I didn't have to suffer the holocaust to say the Nazis are evil. We can and I would argue are morally required to have opinions on things that effect people other than ourselves. That's kinda one of the main outcomes of empathy.
But i am one of the people i was talking about
Gender dysphoria is terrible
I don't doubt that. I think as an adult u should have the right to do whatever the fuck you want with your own body.
I just don't think that children have the mental capacity and development to make such a decision. I've also read (yes peer reviewed papers) that hormone therapy has a statistically insignificant effect on suicide rates or depression for underage people. As such I see no additional risk in delaying any hormonal treatment until someone is an adult capable of making that decision themselves.
May I ask, did u receive hormonal treatment as a child? If so how did it effect you psychologically? If not are you an adult now and decided to undergo such treatment?
I don't put much value on qualitative data but would be interesting to hear nonetheless.
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com please elaborate