Everyone I have ever worked with that's worth a damn started with help desk. If you can't start there and learn the basics and move up, you don't need to be in the field.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Everyone I have ever worked with that's worth a damn started with help desk.

This is so accurate. Past Help Desk experience correlates highly with leaders who actually know what they are talking about.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Yep, it seems there are people who are saying this is bullshit, but everyone who's not high on their own farts seems to agree with it.

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

There's a big difference with help desk jobs and data engineering, for example. What's the point of having someone that knows spark and sql solving tickets about permissions because some dipshit from middle management decided to randomly start removing permissions? (Sorry, it's infuriating and I'm sorry for the people that need to reenable my user)

"Moving up" might make sense in regards to people management within a company, but that's not a very smart take when talking about technical fields. I get paid to analyse data and to propose, implement and test data solutions. That's what I know, it would have been dumb to ask me to start at help desk. I started in a startup to get diverse experience of several tools,and then directly moved into specialised jobs in bigger companies.

In fact, that's my take, people should start at startups to get a wide range of experience before specialising, helpdesk jobs don't really compliment a generic software developers skillset.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

There's a big difference with help desk jobs and data engineering, for example. What's the point of having someone that knows spark and sql solving tickets about permissions because some dipshit from middle management decided to randomly start removing permissions? (Sorry, it's infuriating and I'm sorry for the people that need to reenable my user)

"Moving up" might make sense in regards to people management within a company, but that's not a very smart take when talking about technical fields. I get paid to analyse data and to propose, implement and test data solutions. That's what I know, it would have been dumb to ask me to start at help desk. I started in a startup to get diverse experience of several tools,and then directly moved into specialised jobs in bigger companies.

That's not the point of help desk, it's to teach you the basics. How are you supposed to be worth a damn if all you know is your siloed app? You should understand the basics of AD, domains, networks, firewalls and basic security. You shouldn't be developing apps if you don't understand this stuff. That's how shit devs operate.

In fact, that's my take, people should start at startups to get a wide range of experience before specialising, helpdesk jobs don't really compliment a generic software developers skillset.

The number of devs that don't know the basics and put out shit apps that end up being security nightmares or just function like shit is mainly because they don't know how the rest of the ecosystem works.

[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, no. I shouldn't know the basics of active directory because I'm not at the administrative end of that tool, I'm at the user end of it. I work with wildly different tools where AD and domains are completely irrelevant for my job. It's not even a siloed app, it's the whole sector of data engineering that doesn't touch systems management. That's a completely different speciality and it's as useless for me to gain experience there as is for my buddies that work in helpdesk and security to learn about distributed programming.

I agree with your assessment that having a global view is important, but that's not what helpdesk offers, that's what working on a startup of your sector offers, a wide array of tasks around the job you are specialising in.

Knowing how AD domains work doesn't teach me shit about proper terraform structuring, what's the best way to join multiple tables via spark, proper data manipulation, bash scripting skills (invaluable for my job and my buddies working at helpdesk know shit about bash).

You mention security, but disregard that there are tons of Devs that don't work on user facing apps, right now I'm working on automatic processes that access very well defined tables and write again in well defined places. I'm not the one designing the permission scheme on Azure or anything like that, what I need to know is how to analyse data, how to design proper ETL systems that are able to make and efficient use of distributed systems, and plan good validation tools of the coded systems. None of that interacts with whatever someone would do in helpdesk.

Helpdesk has a good vision on security issues facing users and how the access and permission architecture of all the tools at a company works. Very valuable work, yet irrelevant for me to have experience on it.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Yeah, no. I shouldn't know the basics of active directory because I'm not at the administrative end of that tool, I'm at the user end of it. I work with wildly different tools where AD and domains are completely irrelevant for my job. It's not even a siloed app, it's the whole sector of data engineering that doesn't touch systems management. That's a completely different speciality and it's as useless for me to gain experience there as is for my buddies that work in helpdesk and security to learn about distributed programming.

I don't know why you continue to argue about this. Understanding the foundations of the entire ecosystem is helpful. You're argument is basically the same as those kids who say they're never going to use math. I'm not telling you, you should learn trigonometry, I'm telling you, you should at least know how to add/subtract/divide/multiple.

I agree with your assessment that having a global view is important, but that's not what helpdesk offers, that's what working on a startup of your sector offers, a wide array of tasks around the job you are specialising in.

That's absolutely what help desk does. You don't just learn the basics, you learn how to interact with people as well.

Knowing how AD domains work doesn't teach me shit about proper terraform structuring, what's the best way to join multiple tables via spark, proper data manipulation, bash scripting skills (invaluable for my job and my buddies working at helpdesk know shit about bash).

You're buddies need to dig a bit deeper if they're not using bash scripts. That's like basic shit.

You mention security, but disregard that there are tons of Devs that don't work on user facing apps, right now I'm working on automatic processes that access very well defined tables and write again in well defined places. I'm not the one designing the permission scheme on Azure or anything like that, what I need to know is how to analyse data, how to design proper ETL systems that are able to make and efficient use of distributed systems, and plan good validation tools of the coded systems. None of that interacts with whatever someone would do in helpdesk.

Helpdesk has a good vision on security issues facing users and how the access and permission architecture of all the tools at a company works. Very valuable work, yet irrelevant for me to have experience on it.

Are you suggesting apps that don't have user interactions don't have security vulnerabilities?