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US ambassador to Israel says US no longer pursuing goal of independent Palestinian state
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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Yes and Eastern civilizations would do it too if they had the power. This is a human problem, not just a western problem.
Maybe, but the theft of indigenous lands is a continuum from the western European empires of yore to what's on the news today, so what I'm talking about is a concrete reality that is unfolding (yet again) right in front of us, while you're talking about a probability that things might be the same if, if, if...
How is "theft of indigenous" lands a western thing? I cant think of a single region that didnt seek to acquire more territory.
It is fundamentally different if you conquer an area, impose some taxes and otherwise leave the people somewhat alone, or if you genocide them to create Lebensraum for yourself.
So your argument is that it isn't a human thing and easterners are superior to westerners? Would that be a race thing?
No, making a parallel doesn't mean that's the only reality.
Can you expand your "Maybe" answer to my assertion that this is a human problem not just a western problem?
If it isn't a human problem, what is it?
Relax Jesus Christ, I made a parallel, you took it as absolute truth and challenged that it should apply to all humanity. That wasn't my point, it's yours, so I'm not trying to make it for you. Thanks
"How dare you try to inquire further when I say something vaguely racists. Good Day Sir!"
Not superior, but different. And yes, tribes are different, of course they are. Completely sober, a group of Germans/Finns and a group of Nigerians/Venezuelans/Algerians are completely different and we both know how. Western Europeans without ideology and morality turn into murderers. History proves it. They have fewer issues in dehumanising others, they sleep well at night in a house they robbed from people they killed (from the Native Americans to the Palestinians). No bs, can you say the same for other people in earnest?
Genghis Khan would like a word. So would Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, and Hirohito. Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.
So you're saying it's a cultural issue. Would you agree then that if easterners were to get culture that would allow them to justify colonization and murder, they would do the same things as westerners?
It's almost entirely cultural, of course, but I do think (I can't prove it, it's just travel and observation) that there are innate psychological differences to people of different tribes. The Congolese, the Austrian and the Nepali are different in a deeper way than nurture can account for, I think.
Okay well if it's cultural then culture can be changed. So if you're an easterner, you need to be careful that you don't end up like westerners. The ideological plague that hit westerners can get easterners as well.
At the end there, It kind of seemed like you were heading back towards the race argument.
What if it accounted for a little bit, the tiniest bit, of our psychological makeup? Would it be so terrible or dangerous of an idea? Not for clear minds and kind hearts, surely. I mean, everyone can swim and everyone can run but you know who's gotta have at least the smallest of edges everything else being equal, right? That's easy to accept, maybe this is just the next frontier, that we're not just tabula rasa, but we have some innate tendencies towards/eases and difficulties regarding A or B the more we have of this or another tribe in us. It's not something I will "die on a hill" for, simply because my evidence is all anecdotal, but 🤷.
Between person to person. Yeah that's fine. But comparing population to population is dangerous. Once you know, what do you do with that information?
Historically, this line of thinking has never worked out very well. And as time goes on, who cares, we'll all breed together anyway.
I don't take it personally that the further North I go, the more spaced out people are at bus stations and the further South I go, the louder people will talk, I guess.😅 But you're right, we aren't ready for it.
No, I don't take it personally and I would agree with you if you're asserting these differences are cultural. Unless you're saying this is genetic?
Edit: cultural or a result of societal pressure. I don't mean to imply that particular cultures are bad.
I was replying with the "what would you do with the information?" with that "I don't take personally etc etc"! 😅 As in, I won't take offence to 'weird' and seemingly antisocial behaviour, because I understand there's some differences in personality between tribes (meaning whatever they're giving me I need to reprocess accordingly). Perhaps, they have the tiniest bit of a genetic component (and are even harder/impossible to fully change, and hence why some of these differences and characteristics have been there seemingly forever). I mean, would that be that bad? Or does it really seem that far fetched?
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
I mean if it's a fun hobby of yours, go for it. But you know the history of this stuff as well as I do. It comes with a lot of baggage and people are not going to respond well to it. The group of people that will respond well to it, let's just say, I don't think you want to keep their company. Unless of course you are racist, in which case, you'd be fine.
Yep yep yep. A minor wrong turn and we're back at phrenology and 'genetic supremacy'...
God I hate this myth. The Eastern world had its fair share of absolute dehumanization, be it the extreme brutality in education systems (Pol Pot claimed to have been beaten senseless by teachers multiple times for minor infractions and he had seen this as normal), the Mongol Empire razing cities on a monthly basis or the countless bloody civil wars in Chinese history. Name me a culture and I will name you the ways in which they dehumanized others.
Western Europeans (Americans are displaced Europeans just like apartheid South Africans and genocidal Israelis), for being such a small group of people in an even smaller land, have managed to cruelly oppress the world since at least the days of Jesus til this day. The consistency (the Romans, the Crusades, Francisco Pizarro and Hernan Cortez, King Leopold's Congo, the Dutch East India Company, the native Australian genocide by the Brits, every American conflict including proxy wars, etc.) is, at the very least, curious. Has chattle slavery even been a thing outside of the Western world?! The most destructive conflicts in recent history were just Western Europeans Vs Western Europeans with displaced Europeans joining in later and some extras! Believe what you wanna believe ("we're just better at it!", yeah because you're consistently heartless at times, lol), but if I were you, I'd take the history of my people a little more seriously and consider the suffering of others due to my ancestors' crimes, idk.
Re: Chattel Slavery: Egypt after the 7th century, Subsaharan Africa and after the Trans-Atlantic trade was shut down, the trans-saharan and red sea trade continued to ship Chattel slaves to the Middle East. Mauretania abolished it's Chattel Slavery system legally in 1981, but the practice continues to this day.
Everywhere, where humans established empires, they dehumanized and colonized. Claiming that somehow western Europeans specifically are inherently more prone to doing that.
Even the claim "since Jesus' birth" false. In the meantime, especially in the early years, there were larger empires than the "western European" ones.