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Symbolic actions actively take up time and energy that could be devoted to material actions, particularly if they are as disorganized as this. That connection exists in your mind. There's nothing stopping you from skipping the rally and going in directly canvassing more. Also, referendums fall squarely within the democratic system which elevated the guy you're calling a dictator. It's time to remember Hitler got elected. Gerrymandering laws won't stop them throwing people into camps. This whole thought process is disjointed. These people are breaking the laws what you're voting on state constitutional referendums to change! Did you forget this is a federal system and they are breaking federal laws too?
It's truly comical that people talk about the No Kings Rally like it's going to decolonize the U.S. and then you look at their actual messaging and its Hillary Clinton-tier wine mom sloganeering from the DNC. You guys have gotten me reading Baudrillard again. That's how bad this is. I'm reading fucking Baudrillard. I don't even like Baudrillard dude.
I have to disagree here: symbolic actions are how you get people hooked on action. Big ones like this have a significant bandwagon effect. Its very much a good use of a couple hours
Well, I wish you luck during the next election when you all go around hoping marginalized communities forgot you did nothing but cheer yourselves on. Nobody in the hood forgot the things Kamala "Do Not Come" Harris said, here that is where the Haitians are.
This is a shocker to you I know, but the "I'm just a widdle guy who doesn't wanna hurt anybody 😭🥺" rally is not going to inspire anyone who had their family members kidnapped. Why do you love being a joke to the right wing and coddling them?
LoL
I'm doing something and getting others to join me, taking advantage of a public low-risk event to get others started down the same path. You're sitting around complaining.
Yes, very lulzy, isn't this whole situation funny? I already understand being asked to act against the fascists is a joke to you. You're doing something for the democrats. You won't lift a finger against ICE. What's going to change other than your self-image during multiple fronts of ethnic cleansing? You won't guilt trip me into coming to your liberal complaint parade. Its purpose is to reassure fascists you pose zero threat to them. Go and dance for them, go on!
I know what you say to the marginalized when you campaign. "We're all you've got. 😁" The democrats are much like someone who got all their bones broken in a huge avoidable car accident and still thinks everything is fine due to shock. Things will never be the same. These strategies failed under Bush too. That's why you imitate them. They're safe. You have zero expectations for yourself other than telling people how right you are, scolding them. This is why the party has failed voters.
You keep saying about what they shouldn't do, yet you have not listed even one thing you've already done that is better than things you're calling as performative. If you want to prove your point, just list these things and explain how they're more effective than protesting.
These are not protests, they are parades. Protests dont have a set start and end time. Protests continue until things change.
Not saying they couldn't do better, but they are for sure doing more than the guy not doing anything other than criticise the way of people protest on the internet.
People that are effective in protest are being ignored by liberals that think they know how to. Liberals are incapable of protesting when they dont even know what they are protesting.
Who are these people? Got any links?
If they do exist, I think you'll find it more effective to spread the word about them instead of trying to pull down other people. You won't find acceptance amongst the general public if all they see you do is pull down others. Be more effective in your own messaging.
What is being protested at these events?
Why are you changing the subject? You said there were more effective protesters that are not being covered. Can you link them for me?
I also said liberals have no idea what they are protesting. Unless there's an actual end game in mind it's performative.
Yeah, but that's not the part I'm asking about. You're basically ignoring my question and attempting to force the conversation in a direction you're more comfortable with. I'm more curious about the ones that is not being covered by the media. You seem to have a problem with them not being covered, yet you avoid sharing any info about them when people are trying to find out. What's with the irregularity in your stance?
Still something you didnt address
Why should I address something I'm not trying to deny? You're the one not addressing what I've been asking. Bro, get your head together.
That's blatantly false, I already mentioned the people who directly intervene with ICE raids - which en masse can be relatively effective - rather than throwing a self-aggrandizing parade for the DNC (which ran in the last general election on Trump being weaker than them on immigration).
In Italy and Spain and other countries you can even see other liberals striking and blocking shipments to achieve protest actions. You are particularly cowardly and inactive, even for liberals.
Maybe it's the better European cuisine? /s
Wait. So you are doing nothing yourself and in fact, aren't even in the country of the people you are derriding for not doing enough?
Here in Saint Petersburg we do much to make the Orange Chimpanzee suffer. Speak not of this ingratitude to me.
Those are people, not you. What did you do that gives you the right to say what other people do are useless? What did YOU do that was more effective.
Doesn't matter how effective other's actions are, because they are in a far better position than people who do nothing but criticises other people's actions.
This is exactly the kind of aggrievement that suffering-as-accomplishment generates. Going out and flaggelating yourself won't stop the raids. It's wasting people's energy on non-solutions, that's a negative. It's tiring inaction.
These protests are primarily against the prospect of violent resistance to Trump. Go look at their slogans and quit living in fantasy land.
Again, what have YOU done?
I never defended these protests. I only told you how to make your point actually stick, which is by showing what you did personally that was more effective than what they did. It's you who failed such a simple task and made yourself look like a completely useless keyboard warrior.
What you are attempting to browbeat me with is called standpoint epistemology. This position isn't premised on the identity of the speaker, however. That would be more like if I was arguing that I had accomplished a particular goal. Here I have pointed out that the very goal of these protests is to condemn violent resistance against a child-raping junta.
It does when you're acting like you know better than the protesters, yet have done nothing that is actually better. Actually, you have not even proven that you've done anything even on par with them.
Everyone know keyboard warriors have a point, yet everyone also know they are keyboard warrior because they lack the courage to do what they expect others to do. In that sense, you are just a hypocrite unless you prove yourself to not be one. Your use of specific terms to explain things don't change the fact that nobody listens to people who tell others to do things they are not willing to do themselves. Talk is cheap, even if it's based on the truth.
No it doesn't. Logic doesn't change based on the speaker. Your username is a pedophile who supports Israel (and tedious wordcount-padder), and now that I have noticed it you are blocked for being too dense, just like his tasteless books.
The situation isn't a joke. You are.
Epic clapbacks won't stop the raids. You guys already tried that.
Epic (mediocre) clapbacks is all they got
The people stopping those raids are recruiting at protests. Meanwhile you do nothing.
Batman is there too, carrying a sign that says Restore Society. Meanwhile, Jimmy Kimmel is helping recruit people to stop ICE. This just in 🥳 he told his audience to start calling "North America" Turtle Island.
Well this seems like a great way for all these folks to be able to safely meet up in public and and spread their information on their local organizations and coordinate goals.
And I wasn't going to make a sign that says that but not the worst idea.
I guess you will be there. 😉 Japes aside, this is complete bullshit, people won't even cover their faces or leave their phones behind for this.
This is like people saying Sanders rallies were great sites of political organization, or protests in Free Speech Zones stopped the Iraq War. At Sanders rallies nobody spoke to each other and they went home with renewed passion to vote blue, just like this rally will result in. It's easy to make shit up on the internet.
I just don't think bringing folks down for at least attempting to do something positive and en masse is going to inspire any further actions.
Media, and much social media, paints the picture that "anti-trump" is a minority view. For people in small social circles it may be very reassuring to be able to SEE that their neighbors aren't all maggat supporters, could even be encouraging and hopefully inspiring to now want to do more.
Think of the average person you know. Half the world is dumber than they are. - badly quoted George Carlin
My intention is not to bring people down. That sinking feeling could be the realization of how much time has been wasted on ineffectual tactics, when the bare minimum would be blocking & striking like I said, which requires a lot of discipline and motivation. These protests are explicitly condemning violent resistance and their intended effect is "exposing hypocrisy" of people who are visibly aroused by people calling them Nazis. This is a serious obstacle to collective resistance, people who are just as likely to hand you over to the cops as simply bowing down in front of them. Literally bowinf down; remember the liberal-organized parts of George Floyd protesting? Yeah, this is why I say it is a counterrevolutionary tactic the democratic party selfishly uses to try to sap some political energy for itself.
Being anti-Trump is absolutely not a minority view it's that MAGA is supported by the petit boug, highly-paid salaried workers, police forces (more powerful than municipal/state govts or the federal judiciary depending on their level, with a hierarchy leading up to military intelligence via fusion centers and Silicon Valley tools), and the bourgeoisie including the private banks and zillionaires that fund both parties. These are the tactics of class warfare, primarily through ideological blinders. It's totally palatable for everyone to go out and demand New Deal style benefits to them, because nothing will ever come of it, they don't need to make those concessions since the 90s, and now they need to put the squeeze on everyone with insurance and other unavoidable ripoffs that are required to live in the core countries. The middle classes were artificial anyways, they have no means to resist their destruction by their creators without becoming class traitors.
Most people are dumb, at least half of 'em out there (why I referred to the Carlin quote earlier) and, are not on lemmy.
Anyone knowing things doesn't help those who are dumb or just ignorant and sheltered learn them. They don't even know to go seek the information, they accept what they are given.
There are a LOT of rural areas in the US, a lot of home schooled kids who never leave the towns they were raised in. Those younger folks, at or near adulthood, could actually be revolutionized with knowledge provided. Going to town to grab stuff not available at the local seed-n-feed, SEEing crowds of local people gathered in protest could cause a couple to finally think a thought. That could start a wonderful chain reaction.
I grew up in a sheltered "Christian" nowhere town. Information is HARD to come by out there in those places, anything/everything quickly demonized, and from perspective there, very popularly by everyone. It is a very weird distorted feeling coming out of, and getting to a level of actual reality. The brain resists. Having the internet available doesn't even help anymore, every side has "proof" the other sides are producing "fake news!" and the masses are funneled into their social echo chambers.
Bible-thumping Christianity is a huge obstacle to any solution, that's true. But because I know MAGA is not popular on here, but rather the kind of liberal Christian sensibility that was forgiving to slaveowners despite posturing as abolitionist (if you read Liberalism: A Counter-History you would be shocked how little has changed ideologically), my criticism is aimed towards, unfortunately as much as I used to like his stuff, that kind of Gen X George Carlin snarkiness about Bush and now Trump, which is well past its expiration date. For sure there is tremendous ignorance, but half-measures against ignorance aren't solutions.
Picket line is the best place to educate. I don't think most US workers in the most strategic positions are interested in the kind of action I am talking about, even compared to Euro libs sometimes. For instance the longshoremen make accomodations for weapons shipments to Israel and their only collective action is for maintaining the salaries of their practically hereditary membership. So-called worker action in the US is invariably isolated and has no relationship to declassed workers who cannot get employment or sufficient hours or are prison slaves. Here its marooning of uncitizen immigrant workers from the movement is starker than ever. "We promise not to do anything about your fascism, so please stop!"
Ugh, yes, mass picketing (unless/until everything has entirely broken down) I don't see as a US possibility. As you said, those with the stratigic positions don't seem interested. Way more of the country has people working in restaurants, fast food, retail, call centers, all kinds of "essential" but severely underpaid work. Factory labor being replaced by prison labor, folks terrified of losing their healthcare, because it's tied to your employer, losing their homes as most are 1 paycheck away from homelessness.
It's been decades in the making to remove our abilities to feel enabled to fight back. So many accepted for so long the "We're the best!" while distracted with their sports and shiny baubles with their decreasing free time for thinking and learning and real socializing.
I will take all sparks of hope. I will believe that more than one pair of people will meet, and have ideas ignited that could bring energy and spirit back to fight against the growing tyranny.
I am often called a pessimist, I always say realist. HOPE for the best, even better than expected! Plan for the worst, it's often inevitable.
From the blurb, I feel I am familiar with material related. I remember being very young in Sunday school and being taught the whole "turn the other cheek" and forgiveness unconditionally, and the confusion when I asked "no matter how many times?" - I had gotten "picked" on a lot, real early (I now know the word nuerodivergent, didn't exist then or at least there). They were adamant, everytime, all the time. Then their disgust and horror when I said that "was stupid. That won't make them stop." ...Babbling about riches in heaven, heathens in hell or some shit, as they removed me so we could "have a talk with my parents". ...With suuuch a far spread, fast (or I'm old and everything just seems fast anymore?) soo far right, I'll fight the liberals again once the fascist are squashed back in their stank hole.
It's really approachable imo because a lot of USonians at least remember some of the history classes they took on the failed reconstruction. WEB Dubois has a good ass book on the reconstruction good complement to Losurdo's book, anywyas, if anything stumps you ask Lemmygrad. I'm putting a cork in ths arguing abt No Kings bc I promised to write up shit abt why I think that Mangione guy is innocent + the journalist who put his manifesto out is really suspicious + the relationship between the CIA and alt media. Read Doug Valentine's CIA As Organized Crime (just search it on that same site) he's a huge liberal but the book still rips a pretty big hole in the facade of the alt media
I will be back in like 4 days im looking at my notes in 2021 and i think i was able to See It