this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
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I would really rather that people stop dying. But that choice is entirely up to the Russians, who are the ones who started and are continuing to pursue this invasion.
They could just go home and this would all be over. This is on them.
Amazing deflection of responsibility. Why are you in favor of forcing people to die for your cause? Go fight yourself.
Then there's the denying of reality. The Russians aren't going to go away, even if you send in more conscripts. So the plan is what exactly? Just send in more guys (not you of course) until there's no-one left?
And you also pull the old kindergarten move of "they started it", when you know damn well this shit has been brewing for a while. Heck, even if this were true, maybe some deescalation would be wise? But no matter, the other guys are 100% at fault for sure and so your hands are clean.
Ah, yes. Deescalate with Putin. Because he has shown himself to be such a reasonable man. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine stops existing. If Russia stops fighting, the war will be over.
I'm not going to die for my country or my government, why do you expect Ukrainians to die for this shit?
And because you wouldn't, clearly noone else would either, right?
Ukraine is conscripting people. They're preventing men from leaving the country. They are clearly sending people to the front who do not want to be there.
If someone sends me to die in this way I reserve my right to kill them in self defense.
Stop cheering this on.
If you want to flee conscription, I support that. But likewise, Ukraine has the right to defend its sovereignty. As of now, most of Ukraine's conscripts have been volunteers and, opposed to russian conscripts, they receive training in the very most cases.
And to hammer that point home, just like involuntarilly conscripted soldiers, the people in Bucha, the people in Kherson and the people in Mariupol did not choose to take part in this war. Whenever russia retreats, stories of torture, killings and abductions emerge. Leaving those people to suffer under russia is as inhumane as it gets. Not to mention, all the (war)crimes committed on russian occupied territory will never even have the chance of getting investigated if russia is allowed to hide them.
How do you think the Ukrainians are receiving better training than the Russians? Not that it matters, I'm going to change my mind about sending conscripts to the front, whether they receive 2 weeks or 6 months of training or whether the Russians are doing the same thing. I'm not cheering on Russia's war effort, you're cheering on Ukraine's.
You think it matters to most people who controls what territory? Do you really think a country that has soldiers (whole units!) proudly wearing SS and other Nazi shit are some paragons of virtue towards civilians? It clearly would be best for civilians if the fighting stops as soon as possible.
If you believe all this stuff about good vs evil I've got a bridge to sell you.
One side has some units wearing Nazi iconography. The other side has state sanctioned torture, killings and deportations (and also Nazi iconography). Your comparison is a textbook example of false equivalence.
Nobody is being forced to die for any cause. Ukrainians are fighting Russia because Russia intends to wipe their country off the map. I don't really see why you think you have the right to tell Ukrainians that they don't have the right to fight for the existence of their country.
So what about the fact that
I do agree that there were breaches of verbal agreements by the NATO but there is rarely a more clear aggresor than when one contry invades an other. You may now start with whataboutism, the us and all the countries they invaded but two wrongs don't make a right
The democratically elected government of Ukraine was overthrown in a western backed violent coup in 2014. What Ukraine has now is a client regime.
I also can not believe what war mongering people are doing, blaming only one side but also sending other people to die?
Don't Ukrainians don't count as people who should live? What will Ukraine look like after this war? How many decades will it take for them to recover?
And now, if you even try to mention peace, you are Putin's shill.
No, you don't. You are Putin's shill if you mention peace only at Russian conditions. I'd welcome a peace where Russia leaves the occupied territories forever and stops waging war, the people of Donbass, both of Russian ethnicity and Ukranian ethnicity, get more autonomy, Tatars can go back to Crimea, Russians can vote democratically and have independent media, talk and protest without going to jail and all in all live better.
I'm against war and if everyone just lived in peace, I'd be much much happier.
I just thik that when you put conditions on peace, as you did, and those conditions, as we all know, are not possible (true, current wagner mutiny might and hopefully will change that), you are not really in for peace talks.
There are reasons Russia acted this way, and thise reasons did not change, wether we agree with their (or better even, his reasoning) does not matter. Putin did what he was talking from 2014 he will do.