this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 59 points 1 year ago (5 children)

There actually is no paradox if you think of this way:

Be tolerant of ideas that harm nobody.

Be intolerant of ideas that harm others.

"I'm gay." <- Tolerable.

"I'm not gay, so I won't date men." <- Tolerable.

"I'm not gay, so I think we should kill all gay people." <- Intolerable.

[–] MenKlash@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The dilemma is how you define harming others and what implies being intolerant to an idea rather than a person holding that idea.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Harm is a pretty solid metric. Not some imaginary "think of the children" harm, but the "this disturbs/literally harms me" kind.

Yes, some people are precious little weirdos that won't want to see anything. The question then falls to society to determine if it was ultimately tolerable if they bring up grievance. Then the paradox comes in because the general vibes are always a moving target.

[–] fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry but no, it's not in any way solid. Some think of what they see as sinful as harmful.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

No, sin is wholly different than harm.

[–] Streptember@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Beliefs and personal convictions muck that up a bit though.

There's a sadly significant portion of people who truly believe that being gay is hurting other people.

Whether they believe it only because they were told to or for some personal reason, they believe it nonetheless.

[–] SolarNialamide@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A gay person existing doesn't actually literally harm anyone though. A homphobe shouting slurs at a gay person, excluding them from vital social, economic or whatever activity or beating them up does very concretely harm someone. It's not that difficult.

[–] Streptember@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

It doesn't, but that doesn't mean people can't believe that it does.

[–] Chev@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It is much more nuanced 🙁

By your logic almost every human would be intolerant. Big example is eating and exploiting animals.

[–] unmarketableplushie@pawb.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Chev@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'll let you figure it out :3

[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 3 points 1 year ago

Yes. I think harm is an excellent way to qualify it. As the old saying goes " if it ain't harm none do as thou mote "

or more succinctly: an ye harm none, do what ye will