Linux

Choosing Ubuntu over Fedora because of American ties is rich

Something is awfully weird here, because Linux literally runs the worlds infrastructure for the internet. It is not unstable by any stretch of the imagination. Something you're doing between all distros has got to be the culprit - something you do differently than other people.

Framework fully supports Ubuntu and has full guides on them. If you have issues, I'd suggest posting on the Framework message boards, they're very responsive.

But with Linux, I just can’t believe how unstable it is, even when I do the absolute basic things.

That doesn't sound right.

Start with Linux Mint. I've helped Boomers use it. My dad has been using it as his daily driver for almost 5 years and he doesn't know the difference between an OS and a Word Processor (he keeps calling LibreOffice "Linux").

I'll likely be downvoted for this, but if you're committed to Linux, you might want to reconsider using Ubuntu (or Fedora for that matter). Ubuntu has a well-earned reputation for trying to make things "easy" by obfuscating what it's doing from the user (hence that useless error message). They're also a corporate distro, so their motivations are for their profit rather than your needs (wait 'til you had about Snap).

A good starting distro is Debian (known for stable, albeit older) software. It's a community Free software project and the 2nd-oldest Linux distro that's still running as well as the basis for a massive number of other distros (including Ubuntu). The installer is straightforward and easy too.

Or if you're feeling ambitious, I'd recommend Arch or Gentoo. These distros walk you through the install from a very "bare metal" perspective with excellent documentation. Your first install is a slog, but you learn a great deal about the OS in the process, ensuring that you have more intimate knowledge when something goes wrong.

Where did you get this laptop from? Did you buy it new or used?

The reason why I ask is because it sounds like you have hardware issues.

You need to stop worrying about “official support.” You aren’t a business so it doesn’t matter for you. There is more support out there online for free than you realize. There’s nothing magical framework does for you that doesn’t get ported out everywhere else eventually anyway. Stop limiting yourself like that.

That being said, Ubuntu is built in Debian. Debian is an incredibly solid and stable distro. Ubuntu does do a few questionable things with it but it’s still very reliable. If you have problems with stability, it’s very unlikely Ubuntu is the problem unless you did something so incredibly stupid to it support wouldn’t help you anyway.

I have a theory. Windows can dance around memory corruption issues in ways Linux just refuses to do. Windows will misbehave in strange ways trying to make things work until it just can’t anymore. Linux is more of a binary thing. It works or it doesn’t. It’s not going to play pretend for you. It refuses. Linus has an obscene hand gesture for your hardware.

I want you to get a copy of memtest86+ and boot it off a flash drive. Then just let it beat the shit out of your CPU and ram for a couple hours.

Framework laptops are generally Intel. Intel hasn’t been making the best stuff over the past few years. It’s possible your cpu might be affected by a flaw Intel tried to cover up for a while. If it has it, nothing in earth will ever make that chip reliable. It’s not fixable. It will only get worse with time no matter what OS you use.

It’s certainly weird that you have these issues on a Framework + an officially supported distribution.

Does it really run flawlessly on Windows 11? Because we have Framework 13’s at work, which run W11 and they DO NOT run flawlessly.

What about a fresh installation of Ubuntu? Do you have issues then? It could be some kind of configuration that you do, that screws with your system?

You need to start with Linux mint. The errors you are mentioning are common in ubuntu, crashes happen and popup all the time on my ubuntu installations too. But never on Mint. Mint is based on the stable version of ubuntu, that it has long term support and it's regularly getting updates to make it even more stable and secure. So please start with Mint, or Debian 12 (although Mint is better for new users).

Could this be a snaps thing?

I despise snaps and left Ubuntu for that reason. I don't remember the specifics but I think even after installing firefox with apt it somehow get's magically switched to a snap.

I daily drive debian on a t490s and it's rock solid. There's just no way anyone could consider this set up unstable.

In recent years I've found most of my problems come from the fancy new packages. In order of reliability I find that it goes apt > .dev > AppImage > flatpak > snap

This blows my mind, honestly. Since I moved to Linux about 8 years ago, I've had little to no issues. No force of nature can ever make me go back to Windows and it's constant crashing for no reason. I run PopOS on a PC, Fedora Workstation on my laptop, my wife is also in Fedora, kids too (Nobara), and everything works. Mind you, the only device that is "made for Linux" is my laptop.

Your experience is very out of the ordinary.

it sounds like something underlying is wrong, so would test everything that is underlying your system.

a memtest is the easiest first check. i wouldn't rely on the one that's on your system since it could be bad too, but it's still worth it give it a try since it only takes a few seconds. if it finds anything, then there's definately something wrong with your hardware.

instead, i would rely on a usb stick with the ubuntu image you downloaded. first verify that the checksum for the ubuntu image you have on a trusted computer is the same that ubuntu has on its website. then copy it to your usb stick and then use memtest from there. if it comfirms that your ram is okay, use ubuntu's installation tools to verify that image on the usb stick is good; google or deepseek can show you how with easy to copy/paste commands.

in your shoes, i would re-install because at his point because then there's confidence that the base steps are verified and should be working correctly and then you can move onto othere testing strategies if you continue to experience the same behavior.

Usually, my attempts to use it are either thwarted by issues installing, issues booting, or general problems while using it… leading to “catastrophic failure” that I can’t fix without digging into hours of research and terminal commands.

This was my experience as well ... 20 years ago. I've not had many of these issues over the past few years using any distro. I used Debian for a couple years and now I'm on Arch. Really, it just works for me...

TBH now that I think about it, I ran in to more issues with Ubuntu than just simply using Debian.

It's purely anecdotal but every time I've used an Ubuntu based distro it has been unstable or it nuked itself after 6 months to a year of use. I've been on fedora for 2-3 (4?) years now and I've not had a single issue apart from the Nvidia drivers behaving wonky sometimes.

Usually with Linux, once you start out you're gonna get a ton of issues and you'll have to troubleshoot them one by one. However, afterwards it should just be a smooth sailing.

Also as a word of warning from my personal experience, official support isn't something you should be that concerned about. When it comes to software, when some corporation makes some official version for a specific distribution (like Ubuntu), it usually is made by some B-team and doesn't work that great. If the program is good, it should be available on most major distros rather than just "an official version for just one" if that makes sense.

Also good call - if one distro is causing a fuck ton of issues, just give another one a try. The main difference for users between distros is what kind of software setup they are going with, and some setups are just prone to issues on some hardware or wasn't tested properly. Still, I do hope Fedora treats you better.

People downvoting a post asking for help have very weak egos. I hope you’re able to find a better Linux experience, OP.

Unrelated to OP—

This community is the fuckin sauce! Y’all really jump in to support each other and it’s really cool :)

I just set up a usb boot for mint yesterday and am prepping my pc to switch once I feel confident enough about Linux. I’m starting to gather that will be much sooner knowing the community is here to help out! I can’t wait to get all my services switched to FOSS alternatives.

You ever run a memtest?

Another time I left my computer while I went out for a walk, came back, and it was like I just rebooted… all my work was gone, and it was starting fresh from the login screen.

Well, I'm pretty sure I had this happen once or twice in the recent past after wake from suspend I think, but it might be that my CPU is just one of the faulty intel ones.

Either way the rest of this does not reflect my experience at all. Try distrohopping, I feel like you'll find one that you like and doesn't have these issues. openSuSE is always one of my suggestions, it was the one that I used for a long time when I started out as well, but tbh I'm out of touch with the more mainstream distros, I've only touched Gentoo and NixOS in the past >5 years. (I also specifically recommend against using Ubuntu.)

Then I’ll open a different app, sometimes it might open, sometimes it won’t.

Or an app will freeze for no obvious reason, and I’ll get a popup asking to wait or quit.

Check journalctl --user, and also htop, specifically the process state, for the last one (you mention a NAS, is it perhaps stuck on IO? I'm in a fucked network where that regularly happens with my NAS.)

I work in a small lab. Our systems are controlled using two computers that run 24/7. The main real-time control stack is open source and open hardware. I happens in a Linux box that runs NixOS. I would trust my life to that machine and fly it to the end of the universe and back again. It just never fails. We can even run updates while everything keeps running undisturbed. Some devices need drivers that only work with Windows. The second computer runs those under Windows 11. In contrast we have to babysit that machine constantly, USB connections are unreliable, things fail randomly. When we have to update, the world comes to a halt. It‘s an amazing difference.

This has not been my experience. I'm not on Ubuntu, but OpenSUSE and NixOS. Everything works and operates as expected everytime. The only issue once was nvidia driver updated versions before kernel did and I had to reboot to a previous snapshot and wait a few days till the kernel update was released to work with whatever happened to the driver. But 8 years of a dependable system otherwise

Running a framework 16 with FedoraKDE and before that a 4gb ram 2015 toshiba satellite (in 2024) running Fedora (regular Gnome) and haven't had one of these issues. Most issues I have had were caused by me, every now and again I run into a regular old bug in something and half the time that gets fixed pretty quick.

I wish I could help, but we just have opposite experiences unfortunately. That said, because of this I don't think it's "linux," or I'd likely have at least similar experiences.

OH for a while I did have a bug where VLC would stutter playing video and nobody had a fix, so I uninstalled/reinstalled VLC and it works now. Idk, I've had shit like that happen on windows too though, it's basically the software version of power cycling hardware when it acts up.