this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2025
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] Rockbear 7 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Amazing.

The Chicago metropolitan area has about one and a half times the population of denmark and five times the traffic fatalities.

(And 150 times the gun murders, but it's kind of a given that the US is completely whack on that compared to the rest of the western world)

You should really look into both.

[–] Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 17 hours ago

They don't have 50+ hours of mandatory training before hitting the roads like we do. In some states you can practically just go to an exam and luck out.

Their perception of freedom is messed up and literally causing huge amounts of unnecessary deaths.

[–] rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works 4 points 16 hours ago

Wow, we really need to educate people on safety and strictly license usage based on examination and proven ability.

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If guns are so alike to cars, why not require a license that you get by passing a written test on gun safety and a practical test on basic competence and safe usage?

[–] IhaveCrabs111@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

They are not alike. It’s a dumb comparison. Transport (albeit flawed) brings many more advantages than shooting people. That’s why people accept cars more than guns.

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

I agree it was a dumb comparison to start off with.

I wasn't the one who made it, but the license issue is the logical conclusion if OP insists on the comparison.

[–] Taldan@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

America has ~280M cars, and ~500M guns

Americans, at least, are very accepting of guns. There's a reason the fatality rate is so high

[–] IhaveCrabs111@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago

Sorry let me clear that up. I meant people are more accepting of the deaths that cars cause compared to guns

[–] Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And yet a drivers license requires a lot more than a gun.

[–] Taldan@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Driver's license requirements honestly should be much higher

[–] Kickforce@europe.pub 4 points 17 hours ago

I'm a European and in my country driving tests are really hard and it takes a lot of very motivated people 3 or more tries and the better part of a year of frequent training to get a license. When I hear Americans talking about their driving test, most of them didn't even get on the road and did the test on a separate test terrain. All they need is knowing what a traffic sign is and being nearly able to use their highly automated car. The difference in required knowledge and ability is staggering.

Add to that the tendency to drive huge and heavy SUV 's and trucks that are highly dangerous to other road users and you get an extremely deadly situation.

[–] Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I agree. But a gun license should be harder too.

One of these things is purpose-built for the deliberate infliction of harm. The other is vastly more popular and merely causes harm through negligence.

Sort of like the American political parties, I guess

[–] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is especially surprising to me because Chicago is one of the few US cities with decent public transportation, so there's a significant percentage of people that aren't driving.

[–] Taldan@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Vehicle fatalities are generally far higher than gun fatalities in the US. For decades it was the #1 cause of death under 45, only recently being dethroned to poisonings thanks to fentanyl

For Chicago, this is brought down by very low car ownership rate (by US standards), and a high gun fatality rate (including suicides by gun)

Still surprising guns have kept up though

[–] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 1 points 12 hours ago

Side note:

I've always been on the fence about including suicide in gun violence statistics because I can see both sides of the argument. Yes, the death probably wouldn't have happened without the gun since it's the "quick solution", but also I don't really see self harm as "violence" per se...

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That is a pretty high number of shootings then. Practically everyone drives so that is a lot of miles/person. You have to drive, you don't have to be shot, that is why it draws media attention.

[–] Taldan@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Chicago is pretty different to most of the US. There is actual reliable public transit. The average resident isn't doing nearly the driving of the average American

[–] Lifecoach5000@lemmy.world 72 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This doesn’t super surprise me. Driving should be taken more seriously. You’re controlling a 2 ton death machine and it shouldn’t be taken lightly.

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

We should be retaking driver tests every seven to ten years to keep our license.

Poorly designed roads, signage, and intersections cause a lot of accidents. Think on ramps that throw you into traffic, and off-ramps that want you to get over three lanes after exiting in order to turn right at your cross street.

Lack of traffic enforcement drives up insurance costs and reduces city revenues. Some states have cheaped out on the reflective paint used to stripe roads, so you can’t see lane dividers in the rain. More of that wonderful “deregulation” and people not wanting to pay taxes I guess.

It also doesn’t help that many states are getting rid of car inspections for some bizarre reason. Not great to avoid shit falling off of the car in front of you when you’re going 70 mph.

[–] Lifecoach5000@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Yeah my state has gotten rid of inspections and it’s baffling to me.

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[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

it shouldn’t be taken lightly

Well, of course not. It's 2 tons!

I'll get out...

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[–] elvis_depresley@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I guess it's because one of these things is a widely used tool, a requirement for work / living in the USA and gives people freedom.

The other is just car.

[–] rolling_resistance@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Traffic engineers use decades-old manuals that ignore safety in favour of driver convenience. This has to change. Streets built by them are a huge public safety issue.

We should never accept crashes that result in serious injuries or deaths as if they are an inevitable force of nature or something. They're merely a predictable outcome of a badly built system.

You need three prongs, infrastructure, training and enforcement. No one wants to spend the large amount of $ it would take to redesign thousands of miles of roads in each city. There is also the issue of how ridiculously low the bar is set for getting a license and how basic safety inspections are. In my state I can count on one hand how many times I've seen highway patrols enforcing traffic laws.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 2 points 1 day ago

Traffic engineers

They are just doing what they are being told. They don't have the authority to diviate in practice.

This is a political issue. Everything is captured by the shittiest lobby.

Health care > health insurance and pharma

Infra > cars and oil

Privacy > tech firms

There is nothing a slave can do via direct action in these jobs since they will fire you and out somebody in place who will follow orders.

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 38 points 2 days ago (9 children)

Cars are not designed to inflict harm. This cheap false equivalence tells us a lot.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Right. I can't ride my gun to work or the grocery store. I get that there's a lot of negatives associated with car culture, but it's a tool in a way that firearms are not.

[–] pleaaaaaze@lemmings.world 1 points 1 day ago

Common misconception. You actually can ride your gun to work, but you really have to shove it in here. My advice is use more lube

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[–] LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, cars aren't even designed to kill people and they still do it just as much as guns. They're way too dangerous to be legal.

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

That doesnt make any sense. Since card have other purposes than killing they can be legal.

Since guns only exist to kill they should not be legal. But it is a fight against wind mills since americans love their ability to kill who they want more than they love their kids.

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[–] BottleCaptain@feddit.nl 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Given the strong correlation between these two, I hypothesise that in Chicago, cars rather than bullets are shot from guns.

[–] cicadagen@ani.social 6 points 1 day ago

Car guns. Fully automatic.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In absolute numbers.

How many users? How many per people?

Why does the absolute number matter? Why does the rate matter?

The claim is that cars and guns are equally deadly in Chicago, with the observation that gun deaths are reported more.

If this is 3 people or 30 thousand people, the critique is the same.

If this is 1 in 10 million people or 1 in 10 people, the critique is the same.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 30 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Road deaths are typically viewed as a risk we take while going about our day, while firearm deaths are either an intentional act, or someone doing something very stupid.

How many people drive a car daily in this area?

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[–] maxwells_daemon@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Driving is orders of magnitude more likely to kill you at any second you're in a car, than flying is at any second you're in a plane.

People who are terrified of flying will get in a car and drive like a monkey like it's no big deal.

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[–] radix@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Dumb question: which one draws more media attention in Chicago?

In my own experience (not Chicago), the local news is dominated by where the rush-hour crash is today, while national news talks way more about gun deaths.

I'm going to go with the general vibe of Lemmy here and assume you mean that auto deaths need to get more attention in America. To that I would say there is a general cultural attitude that cars are a necessary evil (even among most people who don't outright love them, which is a huge demographic), and fixing the zoning and infrastructure would take decades and many tens of billions of dollars to restructure a large city around public transit. Besides bumper-sticker-slogan politics ("more public transit!") there are precious few real, concrete plans for getting from the current situation to the car-free utopia.

Even then, you'd not eliminate cars entirely. Among the more developed western European nations that are known for good public transit, Ireland seems (at a quick glance) to have the fewest cars per person at 536 per 1,000, while the car-happy US has 850/1,000. So best case, you reduce cars by ~35%.

Gun deaths, on the other hand, are easier to imagine as a problem that can be solved relatively quickly and with less disruption. From an advocacy point of view, it's the lower-hanging fruit.

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[–] count_dongulus@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Neither of these topics should even be drawing media attention, considering how frequent and non-notable they are. They just report on this stuff every day because it's cheaper and easier than exclusively finding and reporting on real notable local news, and television news needs filler content for selling ad spots. Ever had a day where there was no news, and they ended early?

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