t480 or t470
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I got myself an old EEE PC for exactly that purpose. (Except, substitute python with lua).
8h battery life, cost me €20 and does what it's supposed to. Just make sure you get one with an Atom N280 or better. The popular N270 is 32bit only, and more and more programs are dropping 32bit support. Some of them you can DIY compile for 32bit, some you really don't want to.
(For example, compiling Node on an Atom N270 takes around 3 days.)
I had one with an N270 first and replaced it with one with an N450 to get 64bit.
Maxed it out with 2GB RAM, a cheapo €10 SSD that maxes out SATA and overclocked it to 2GHz.
It's not fast by any stretch of the imagination, but it's totally ok for editing text files with Kate and compiling with platformio.
Refurbished Thinkpad. The answer is always refurbished Thinkpad.
Yep. I'm using a used ThinkPad X1 Carbon. 8 years old and running Linux like a dream
what are they like for duability - e.g. knocks from being put in and pulled out of a rucksack
Some of the best you can get in terms of durability. You might pay for it a little in weight and thickness though compared to some ultra thin models.
Magnesium frame and such. I had an older and heavier one and was always joking it would come handy as a blunt weapon if there was a sudden monster attack. It once fell from my desk to the floor and didn't even had a scratch.
Plus if you are on budget it is really best value for the money.
Check ThinkWiki and Thinkpad wiki sites for details. You do not need high specs to run Linux.
don't know if a refurbished thinkpad is good if you're on a budget, by the time you realise you might have a couple dozen of them on your desk all running linux
Lenovo also sells older models for dirt cheap on their website sometimes.
Instead of just throwing random preferences out there, I'll help clarify the field of comments:
- Thinkpads USED to be a safe choice, but Lenovo has been tainting that model line for a few years. Search and find specific models, and don't just buy because it has the Thinkpad brand.
- Framework is 100% ready to go. They have a Refurb store where everything is cheap, but if you find one cheaper, get it.
- Dell had a ton of Linux ready laptops under the XPS brand not long ago. Search and find out which to make sure, but they shipped with Linux installed.
- I hate to say it, but HP Probooks were solid and shipped with Linux also. Terrible company, but they make decent enterprise products. They'll sell for cheap on eBay.
There are <250USD used frameworks?
No, I don't think I ever seem one for under 700 USD, despite some "news" saying you could find at 500 USD.
Every time people ask for cheap computers, there is always people sharing their preferences without any regard for OP's listed needs.
Thinkpad T, P, W, & X (Carbon) are generally pretty solid, though T & X probably better fit OP’s preference for portability. The T series is/was also user upgradable (memory and SSD), usually pretty easily. I think some of the carbon models were also upgradable, but can’t remember. Cruicial’s website is very helpful with this. If the laptop has “Idea” or “Yoga” in the name, it’s more than likely trash. There were some “higher end” Yoga models, but AFAIR none were upgradable.
old T (until t440p) you could upgrade the cpu as well, and they are dirt cheap on aliexpress
People are going to say Thinkpad but I am going to say 2013 to 2017 MacBook Air. Inexpensive. Light. Good looking. A joy to use. Faster than you think. And well supported under Linux (I use EndeavourOS on them myself).
This was my immediate thought. An M1 Mac laptop is still a very useable laptop, and the battery life on them is fantastic.
M1 mac is still problematic with Linux, with only Asahi offering limited support, and you cannot find one at OP's price point.
A problem with macbooks is that most have soldered ram, and even hard disks, which negates the possibility to upgrade to modern capacities. Many older non apple laptops can be upgraded to a larger SSD and ram, and be given a new lease on life.
I second this if he can find a 2013~2017 for free/cheaper, I use an old Macbook Air with EndeavourOS mostly for writing, but my use case is not that far from OP's, it also runs some old games.
It is light and portable, and it is just as easy to find a refurbished option as the Thinkpad (at least in NA).
My only problems are with the drivers(the Wi-FI and the FacetimeHD camera) and the charging cable.
I tried a bunch of distros, but only with EndeavourOS I got them to work easily.
That said, if OP prefers better Linux support, and better cost x performance. He will be better suited with a Thinkpad T or X (T480/T490 or X280) refurbished will be in the price range.
X280 is barely above 1Kg, with a smaller screen.
T480 is chunkier, bigger screen and Ethernet port.
The generic answer for this is to get a refurbished thinkpad. Pretty much any T-series fit your needs and there's plenty of pre-leased corporate machines around which are refurbished and often have even a some kind of warranty.
This...is not the best answer. You need to be REALLY SPECIFIC about model numbers now that Lenovo has pollutes that brand space.
Used Thinkpad X or T series
What's the main difference between the two?
X is lighter but have already soldered in RAM. T series are a little bit more bulky but pretty much anything can be customized. Be wary of the t480 and t490 though. Those have some flimsy charging ports that if broken will be impossible to fix.
X series are lighter and smaller than T series, on the other hand they are less upgradable.
A refurbished Thinkpad T480.
I have recently bought 2 dirt cheap thinkpads, one for me and one for the wife.
T490s - i5 intel
T14s - Ryzen 5 AMD
Both are tick all your requirements except for the numbpad, the T14s is definitely worth the extra money, though. It can even handle some medium gaming.
Both have upgradeable nvme ssds. However the ram is soldered on the "s" versions of these laptops so find one with 16gb or more.
loving my recently acquired T480. not the fastest by any means, but solid and great keyboard. plus non-soldered memory allows for upgrades. got mine off craigslist for 120, a steal.
T480s is my backup work laptop. Runs Linux fine (have had Ubuntu, currently Fedora 42). Runs windows 11 like shit, but then my primary P1 gen 4 also doesn’t run 11 much better, so…
You basically need a supercomputer for windows 11 to not run like complete shit. Linux will run well on 15 year old hardware, although I wouldn't suggest anything that old if you care about power consumption.
If you're able to code from a terminal, and care about longer battery life (my main concern when working from a coffee shop or elsewhere), I'd recommend getting a used android tablet, pry something from xiaomi or oneplus. You can find a decent model used for around that price with > 8 hour battery life easily.
Get a good stand, a solid bluetooth keyboard (logitech makes some great portable ones), and put termux on it (can probably handle light python locally).
If you need it to do CPU powerful tasks, use termux to remote into a VPS or your home server, and let a plugged in linux machine do the work so you can save your device's battery life. This is how I code at least.
So buy a shell of a device to then SSH into a computer I leave running 24/7? Got it. Forgot to say, I pay my own bills.
You mean the power cost of a computer idling at home?
I have 5 computers (beelink and nuc servers) at home rn, each idles at ~6 watts. That's about 40 usd a year. One computer would be 8.5 usd per year.
Dell latitude 14 inch 5430 or similar, cheap ish. Its got all the wants and needs. Plenty of ports. Its dell so it'll survive forever.
Keep browsing eBay and HotUKDeals. You can easily find something really good for <£200.
This 11th Gen Intel Dell laptop was going to £150 this morning and I was on the verge of ordering it and adding more RAM.
This sub is obsessed with Thinkpads, but when you're looking for a secondhand bargain then you pick up what comes opportunistically. The market is flooded with Dells because businesses change machines long before they go out of date and generally keep them in very very good condition.
I've had great results with various refurbished Dell Latitudes from eBay over the years. I have a stack of about 5 or 6 of 'em and they've all run many mainstream Linux distros with fantastic out-of-the-box support. I pass 'em out to members of the household whenever a laptop is needed and they'll usually get the job done.
I'd just type in "Dell Latitude" on eBay and filter by price and such. I suspect any model with an i5 and 8GB RAM oughta be fine for light programming work. I've found sellers with high ratings (like 97% or higher) and thousands of sales are pretty reliable (and tend to have return policies in case you get a lemon). Just test all the hardware (webcam, microphone, headphone jack, USB ports, ethernet, etc) as soon as you get it.
I've saved a lot of money over the years buying secondhand, and these machines have been running without a hiccup for years of casual use.
If you're in the US, refurbished thinkpads are probably the best option. Not so much here in Australia (but you mentioned GBP so perhaps you're in UK). Whatever. I bought a refurb Dell Latitude 3120 for AU$229
mfg yr 2021 Intel(R) Pentium(R) Silver N6000 @ 1.10GHz 8Gb RAM Intel UHD graphics Intel Wi-Fi 5 9560 (160 MHz) Bluetooth 5.0 Display: 1366 x 768 11.6" touchscreen 2-in-1 Disc: M.2 256Gb PCIe NVME Class 35 SSD 1.35kg
Runs voidlinux like it was born to it. It's my travel laptop.
maybe search for system76 too. I found one on my local craigslist.
A refurb!
I'm not sure how common they are outside Japan, but I have a little (about 12" I think) Panasonic "Let's Note" that I use quite a lot as a lightweight coding (and retro/indie gaming :D) device that I can throw in even my smallest bag when there's a chance I'll have to kill more than a few minutes. They're designed to be a little bit rugged. I had Ubuntu on it previously, now Mint, and the only problem I've had is that Linux somehow sees two screen brightness systems, and by default it connects the screen brightness keys to the wrong (i.e. nonexistent) one. Once I traced the problem it was a quick and painless fix.
They seem to be sold worldwide, so you may be able to get one cheaply second-hand. One thing to be careful about is the fact that in order to keep the physical size down, the RAM is soldered to the board. Mine is an older model (5th gen iCore), and has 4GB soldered on but also one SODIMM slot, so I was able to upgrade to 12GB total. But I've noticed that on most later models they got rid of the RAM slots entirely, so whatever RAM it comes with is what you're stuck with.
A light Chromebook?