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135
Man carrying home his gardening tools arrested by armed police in Manchester (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 days ago by Flax_vert@feddit.uk to c/unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
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[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 95 points 2 days ago (17 children)

When he was arrested, Rowe said, the officer pulled the trowel out of its sheath, and said: “That’s not a garden tool.”

“I said it is, because it was in the Niwaki-branded pouch that you get at garden centres,” Rowe said.

Rowe said police had questioned him on whether he was “planning on doing something” with the tools, and he said he was also asked to explain what an allotment was.

“I had to explain in very basic terms what an allotment is to this guy,” he said. “So it didn’t fill me with a lot of confidence that I was going to be let off.”

Manchester's brightest at work. Experts enough to know what is and isn't a garden tool but don't know what an allotment is 🙄 ACAB

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I'm pretty sure they're quizzing him about allotment, something a gardener should know. Get him to talk so they can catch him on something.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 19 points 2 days ago (2 children)

He should have waited for a solicitor.

[–] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Rowe said he was interviewed without legal representation as officers had been unable to reach a solicitor, and after spending several hours in custody he said he accepted a caution so he would be released.

He was stopped at 12:20pm, it's not like everyone had gone home for the day. What's he supposed to do at that point? He's already been waiting "several hours", it's not like there's gonna be more solicitors working after five o'clock. It sucks, but being able to go home and fight it afterwards seems like the best option. Especially with national news coverage on your side

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Possibly. It seems like a situation where an autistic man was banged up in an unpleasant cell and they broke him.

I do not know if overturning a caution is as easy as avoiding it. Heard people getting similar police records and being unable to overturn them at all because they weren't convictions.

[–] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 day ago

No, I don't really know either. I'm not really sure why I shared my opinion to be honest!

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[–] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 1 day ago

When he was arrested, Rowe said, the officer pulled the trowel out of its sheath, and said: “That’s not a garden tool.”

[Aussie accent] "That's not a garden tool. This is a garden tool!"

[–] sicjoke@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I got age checked to buy a blender in Currys yesterday.

I am 56

We are fucked.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Well what were you going to use it for???

[–] lath@piefed.social 20 points 2 days ago

Blend genders.

[–] 01011@monero.town 5 points 2 days ago

I didn't even know they age checked for such.

Street gangs in the UK have started using blenders?

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 34 points 2 days ago (3 children)

For those who may not know what a Hori Hori is:

To the cops I'm sure they saw:

[–] MurrayL@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah, he was treated poorly but the concern is understandable IMO

You can’t walk around in public with what looks, to the untrained eye, a lot like a combat knife and then act surprised when the police show up.

[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 45 points 2 days ago (3 children)

But you can be surprised when the police don't let you go after realising the thing is mostly blunt. What looks like a knife edge on the right hand side of that picture isn't sharpened like a knife, it's more like how a spade has a keened edge, because it's a fancy type of trowel. The saw edge is sharp though, but again, not as sharp as a wood saw.

Plus, the law allows for the carrying of a knife for a reasonable legitimate purpose. The accused was carrying a basket of vegetables, having just harvested them using the "knife". It's a legitimate purpose, and it wasn't even a knife.

Add on that it was also sheathed, and we have a clear case of moron cops being heavy handed and abusing the law.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

He should have waited for a solicitor in all honesty. He ended up being coerced into accepting the charges by the sound of things. Basically an autistic person being taken advantage of.

I can understand the armed response. I have heard similar stories and a lot of the time people have a good laugh about it after, if they aren't too traumatised.

[–] LilB0kChoy@piefed.social 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

the law allows for the carrying of a knife for a reasonable legitimate purpose

My opinion, not from the UK so it’s worth little, is that this is all that should be needed.

“What’s that? What’s it for?” … “Ok, we got a call from a concerned citizen who thought it was a knife. Have a good day!”

Maybe they could throw in a polite, friendly suggestion that they use a bag to transport their tools but its not like it’s required, if I’m understanding correctly.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

Yeah, it's for cutting plants and roots.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 6 points 2 days ago

It's not illegal if you have good reason (that isn't a weapon). In this case, it was good reason.

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[–] arsCynic@beehaw.org 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Why couldn't the cop just:

"Hey, love your music man!"
"Huh? My music?"
"Dude, you totally resemble Robert Smith from The Cure!"

"Ooh hahaha, thanks."
"So, what I actually approached you for, we've had a call that reported a shady looking person carrying a knife in this area. You seem fine, but just double checking because, well, we see weird shit sometimes and don't want to be negligent."
"Aha okay, fair enough. Well these look like knives perhaps but they are actually professional gardening tools. I can show you my masterpiece actually."
[…] after a 20 minute tour in his garden.
"So cool man, should get my ass into nature more too. Sorry for the trouble and thanks for your time and understanding. Have a good one."
"Cheers, see you around."

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

A lot of police officers would be like this, and it wouldn't make the news. Although the ARV would probably be called before the police could get there.

[–] AppleMist@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago

Because that's the alternative universe where people are competent and think things through for more than 2 seconds before they do things.

[–] WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Several decades ago my dad was pulled over on the way to work and questioned about my sisters toy knitting needle and what he intended to do with it…

[–] ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago

Did he have to explain sounding?

[–] Babalugats@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The actual tools Niwaki Hori Hori gardening trowel in a canvas sheath, and an Ice Bear Japanese gardener’s sickle.

The Niwaki Hori Hori gardening trowel

And theNiwaki Ice Bear Japanese gardener’s sickle.

[–] MrPoletki@feddit.uk 14 points 2 days ago

The Guardian's photographer had an absolute whale of a time with this article.

Look at those dreamy vegetable garden scenes.

[–] mr_strange@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A timely reminder to never accept a caution (unless you are damn sure you would also plead guilty in court - because that's essentially what you're doing).

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 7 points 2 days ago

Apparently police can send you voluntary interview invites. You refusing/ignoring them cannot be used against you. But a no comment interview can.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Reminds me of the cops that arrested a legally blind man for having his guide stick (I don’t know the proper terminology) folded up in his back pocket. He was able to see in daylight, but needed it at night. They called it a weapon. This was in the USA.

ACAB.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

UK weapon laws freak my American mind out. You can carry a folding, non-locking knife with a blade of less than 3 inches, without any justification or excuse?! Is violent knife crime a thing over there?

This stupid thing blows my mind. All I see are a bunch of harmless pocket knives.

I know, bag on the American who can carry a gun. LOL, I could carry a sword in public were I so inclined, and I often carry a machete in the woods. Believe it or not, straight to jail.

To practical matters, how do y'all transport kitchen knives, axes and other tools? Serious. And think on this, if you intend harm or self-defense, why not just carry a standard 2lb. hammer?

Also, two of my worst self-inflicted wounds were from non-locking knives, won't touch them any longer.

[–] rollin@piefed.social 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Is violent knife crime a thing over there?

yes we've had spikes of knife attacks over recent years, a lot of it is gang related, with kids stabbing rival gang members in tit-for-tat spirals of violence.

Knife crime in general is nowhere near as bad as it is in America (and of course as you point out you guys have gun violence on top of that), but the UK is historically a peaceful country and our tolerance of friends and family being murdered in the street is a lot lower than yours.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

One note, and not one to say we don't have a gun problem. But when you tear it down, half the gun deaths are suicides, much of the rest is gang related, remainder being family and friends killing each other. The notion that there's random shootings all over the place is false.

Notice what we report on! Brown people killing each other barely rates a blurb in local media, if any. AR-15 involved? ALL the reporting. Guy went bugshit in Maine, killed a bunch of people, no reporting on the weapon. (It was an AR-10, basically an AR-15.) Random violence gets headlines.

Most gun violence sites rate any shooting on school grounds as a "school shooting". I could pop one off at midnight at the local high school. School shooting! Cop shoots a kid. School shooting! While horryfying, it just doesn't happen as much as it's made out. We had plenty of guns when I was a kid, no school shootings until Columbine popularized the sport.

I feel this gets the point across. You might notice the MotherJones numbers, hardly a conservative site.

Maybe I'll contradict my earlier statement; America doesn't have a gun problem, America has a culture problem. I can illustrate using a local anecdote.

Local guy sees someone breaking into the empty trailer which is on his lot. Motherfucker thought it was A-OK to hide inside the treeline and shoot the guy the next night. He felt within his rights to hunt another human being. People on NextDoor.com were defending the shooter. Well, the cops disagreed, that's murder one.

[–] rami@ani.social 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

historically peaceful

sideeyes all the colonialism

[–] rollin@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago

Well. Some of those chaps were carrying knives - without a licence - so we had no choice really.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

You cannot carry pepper spray to defend yourself. You don't need it because knives are illegal /s

The pocket knife thing is basically for Swiss army knives.

A hammer wouldn't be allowed either.

You can transfer kitchen knives and tools. That's allowed. And what the guy in this article did is legal. But what happened was the police made him admit to something he wasn't doing.

[–] stickly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So what I'm hearing is if you want to commit a violent crime just wear a hard hat/hi-vis vest and say you're going to hammer things at work? Or put on a funny chef hat and walk around freely with your knives? Seems like the regulation only exists as fig leaf for minority profiling and harassing young people.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 points 1 day ago

Or just grab a knife, put it in your bag and don't get caught. The police will only find out if they randomly stop and search you, which I think is probably a sub 1% chance, especially if you're a well dressed white briton.

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