this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2025
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[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Ok so genuine question (and also my odd moral I guess?) why is eating a plant more moral than eating an animal? They're both equally alive and subsequently equally dead. Sure plants don't have a nervous system but they do react to harmful stimuli in a way somewhat analagous to a pain response. The only real difference appears to be that we can relate to animals more.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 15 points 19 hours ago

Eat plants: plants die

Eat animals: animals have to eat a bunch of plants first meaning way more plants die and also animals die

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Plants don't have an agent that feels negative or positive feelings. Its stimulus-response system starts and stops at that. Animals on the other hand can experience suffering and pleasure, and and it's morally wrong to inflict the first and deny the second

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

suffering and pleasure, and and it’s morally wrong to inflict the first and deny the second

this is only true under a limited set of moral beliefs. most people aren't utilitarians though

[–] Cobratattoo@feddit.org 1 points 18 minutes ago

But most people do care if someone hurts their own dog. Why is causing pain to animals not okay when dogs are involved but it is for pigs, cows and chickens?

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Plants don’t have an agent that feels negative or positive feelings.

you can't prove that

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

you can’t prove that

I also can't prove that you have one. It's not a standard we operate under.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I also can’t prove that you have one

so it's probably not a good basis for making moral decisions

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

It is. You're already doing it, otherwise you will be having zero problems with killing and eating random humans. You just put your line at believing that humans have agency, even though you just as much can't prove that.
We have pretty good understanding of how biological organisms operate at this point. We don't need to spend generations on disproving solipsism anymore.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

You just put your line at believing that humans have agency, even though you just as much can’t prove that.

you're projecting.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think it means what you think it means.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

you're projecting your values and ethical system onto me.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

No, I just assume you aren't eating humans. Because it's the only way we can continue this conversation.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 13 hours ago

you also assumed my reasons

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 16 hours ago

You’re already doing it, otherwise you will be having zero problems with killing and eating random humans.

no, that's not the basis of my moral decisions

[–] UndergroundGoblin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

Would you say that cutting a carrot is equal to cut the throat of a cow?

Plants do not have a central nervous system or a brain so they are not able to feel pain or emotions. Animals can feel, dream, have friends, same as we do. Just not as complex.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

If that's the litmus test, then there are certainly animals that aren't sentient and don't meet those requirements. Is it OK to eat animals that do not have brains?

[–] Irelephant@lemm.ee 1 points 16 hours ago

Actually, (correct me if i'm wrong) carrots are not dead until you boil/cook them.

^I^ ^love^ ^poking^ ^holes^ ^in^ ^people's^ ^analogies^ ^without^ ^addressing^ ^their^ ^points.^

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

You are also denying oxygen to those cows

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

they are not able to feel pain or emotions

you can't prove that

[–] UndergroundGoblin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Here is my prove: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8052213/

TL;DR: Abstract

Claims that plants have conscious experiences have increased in recent years and have received wide coverage, from the popular media to scientific journals. Such claims are misleading and have the potential to misdirect funding and governmental policy decisions. After defining basic, primary consciousness, we provide new arguments against 12 core claims made by the proponents of plant consciousness. Three important new conclusions of our study are (1) plants have not been shown to perform the proactive, anticipatory behaviors associated with consciousness, but only to sense and follow stimulus trails reactively; (2) electrophysiological signaling in plants serves immediate physiological functions rather than integrative-information processing as in nervous systems of animals, giving no indication of plant consciousness; (3) the controversial claim of classical Pavlovian learning in plants, even if correct, is irrelevant because this type of learning does not require consciousness. Finally, we present our own hypothesis, based on two logical assumptions, concerning which organisms possess consciousness. Our first assumption is that affective (emotional) consciousness is marked by an advanced capacity for operant learning about rewards and punishments. Our second assumption is that image-based conscious experience is marked by demonstrably mapped representations of the external environment within the body. Certain animals fit both of these criteria, but plants fit neither. We conclude that claims for plant consciousness are highly speculative and lack sound scientific support.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

that's not proof they aren't conscious

[–] UndergroundGoblin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

"...plants have not been shown to perform the proactive, anticipatory behaviors associated with consciousness..."

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 12 hours ago

an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence