politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
You're right that the USA can enforce laws only on those under its jurisdiction. But its jurisdiction extends to everyone in the USA, citizens or not. If I travel to the USA and commit a crime there, I can be arrested, tried and imprisoned in the USA unless the USA decides to deport me instead. If I'm imprisoned in the USA and my home country has an extradition treaty with the USA, my home country can decide whether it wants to go through a diplomatic process to get me returned. If I don't have a home country (being stateless), that chance doesn't exist. And if they don't try to get me returned and the USA doesn't deport me, I'm stuck in a US prison.
The same applies in other countries. When you are in a country you are under that country's jurisdiction, meaning that the laws of the country apply to you and you can be handled by the judicial system accordingly. Every sovereign nation has the legal authority to make and enforce laws within its territory, and this authority applies to everyone physically present, not just its citizens. This principle, that a country's laws apply to everyone in the country, is why "sovereign citizens" are basically mistaken when they claim to be beyond the law's reach, and it's why tourists don't have license to go on a crime spree.
That is correct. My point is if they argue that clause of the 14th Amendment about being “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” they would effectively make them legally untouchable.
There’s no way to interpret the 14th Amendment to accomplish what they want to accomplish.
Yes, I have been misreading your argument, but I think it's a bit academic. You are arguing that if the government were to argue that these people were not subject to US law, in an attempt to give itself free rein to abuse them, it would undermine itself by leaving them legally untouchable so it couldn't do anything to them. Legally that may be true, but practically the government is showing its intention to take extrajudicial action against them (like kidnapping them and trafficking them to foreign prison camps) and the law of the USA is the only thing protecting people from this treatment. So if US law didn't apply to them they'd end up open to any kind of abuse by the US government.
In any case, illegals, invaders and terrorists are subject to US law when they're in the USA, and that confers rights on them. That's why the USA used Guantanamo Bay and black sites around the world to avoid having to bring people to the USA where they'd be under the protection of US law and the rights it confers. So if the US government attempted to make any legal argument that US law doesn't apply to these people while they're in the USA, it would be quite obviously wrong.
Right. The law is academic. I’m not saying they couldn’t shoot them dead in the street. We all know the government doesn’t always follow the law. I’m simply saying that’s the legal problem that would be created as a result of changing the interpretation of that clause, and therefore an unreasonable interpretation for a court to make.