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no one has cared since record executives have been generating AI generated tier music by hand.
What's the fucking difference between a rich asshole comissioning music based around market resarch, to be made by some trendy female popstar, written by five different men, the singing gets autotuned, punch clock studio musicians play generic chord progressions and melodies, and it's all straight ahead 4/4
At least with imaginative gen AI, you can get cool stuff like Pho-que
If you dislike Pho-que, you'll probably dislike the human counterparts like Shining (Nor) or Naked City
Reminds me of this NYT video about how a pop song is made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaAv5AiBRgY
At the beginning, a musician at a keyboard composes the basic tune. Then a whole series of MFers overproduce it to hell. At the end, the original musician happens to meet the singer who did the human part of the final rendering and is the "star" who everybody watches perform. In a better day, the original musician would be the star, but in this process they are insignificant.
I can still feel some kind of emotion through it. The emotion may just be greed, but it's at least something. AI generated music doesn't even have the soul of slime. It gives nothing. It feels like nothing. It's completely empty and hollow instead of just mostly.
Ok, I'm pretty sure seeing a sunset behind a forest will also give you a kind of emotion as well. Who is the artist there?
Art is like a greasy mirror, there may be some intent there by the artist, but mostly you see yourself and your own feelings in the work.
Also, the AI generated music doesn't come from nothing, someone is communicating an idea to the computer which then, based on as much human music as it has consumed, tries to give back something that sounds like what the original person intended. it's not just a magic "music button".
So with the AI music, there's an expression and emotion you can feel coming from the original person (alongside the thousands of other people whose work has been fed into the machine)
If you don't like it sure.
I did not say it gives me emotions. I am a super empath; I can feel the emotion put into the work from the artist. AI created shit completely lacks anything to empathize with. There is no soul to feel. The promot given to the AI does not pass anything through into the generated creation.
Jørgen is my spirit animal and Arctopus fucking rules but this take is hot as fuck my dude. Real people making real music with real instruments is art. Generative AI takes our art and makes emotionless, sloppy approximations out of it. If you despise cookiecutter pop now you're going to be blown away by the absolute drivel that is already being pumped out thanks to genAI. The only reason the song you linked is 'imaginative' is because a real human already imagined it only to have it tossed into the slop pile for a computer to root through. Wouldn't you prefer the 'actual' musicians making 'actual' music be recognized instead of being buried even further under exponentially growing pools of emotionless notes arranged into emotionless music? The musicians you and I both appreciate for their creativity and skill are having that skill and creativity stolen from them and you're cool with it because pop doesn't innovate? Because musicians with decades of knowledge of their instruments and a variety of styles want a paycheck? Record execs have leeched off actual creativity for a solid century now and you want to end them with an even more soulless product that still doesn't pay artists? It might start with pop but if you think avante-garde, cerebral music will be ignored you're mistaken.
You deserve a better reply and I will write you one later, but...
Bro, the song skullgrid was generated by a Java program that Colin and a programmer friend of his, ~~possibly Mike~~ , was working on. In 200X. You've been rocking out to AI generated music before you even realised. Brian Eno also had some music that was meant to be generated by an automated system, and afaik, so did John cage.
Edit : https://colinmarston.bandcamp.com/album/computer-music-2003-2004
Synthesized music is not AI generated. 🤦♂️
Are you also going to to claim that Bach used AI to create his music because he did so mathematically?
He created the score. If you equate using scoring software, MIDI and synths to creating slop with genAI we're done here my dude.
now, not to be an asshole, but I remember 1) talking to Colin before a Gorguts show in 2014 ish and 2) Hearing it confirmed in an interview.
Oh also, in the documentation for JMSL (Java Music Specification Language) its puropuse is to :
https://www.algomusic.com/jmsl/download.html
JMSL_v2_20250209\JMSL_v2_20250209\html
I see where you're coming from and will concede JMSL's ability to algorithmically create music.
I still maintain an artist using that or similar software (Guitar Pro, etc.) to translate their own ideas into a more manipulateable form for composing/practicing is fundamentally different from prompting a genAI that has been trained on ideas stolen from actual artists.
That said, music written via formula to cater to the lowest common denominator and generate the greatest possible monetary return is certainly closer to how genAI is/will be used, but the human element involved in writing, recording, and performing that music still distinguishes it from the sort of slop showing up on Spotify. AI generated works are an exemplar of derivative beyond that of even the blandest pop. The only human involved is the prompt writer at best; lyrics, melody, the recording itself are statistical approximations and entirely devoid of human creativity and that is an utter tragedy.
I'd much rather the record companies be replaced with systems that don't alienate the artists from their labor and creativity. Embracing slop is playing into the execs hands and removes all artistic merit from the process.
Quick edit; Generated slop training on generated slop is already a problem and will get exponentially as more platforms are flooded with it. That will only alienate and divorce it even further from reality. It will only get worse.
That is by no means AI generated, and certainly not by today's understanding of the term. If I write a score and design an instrument (or sound, etc), that is still a creative process. Brian Eno literally created ambient music with algorithms like that, but it is still his creative work.
My point is just computer-generated ≠ ai-generated in general discourse.
What's the difference? Why isn't it seen as a collaboration between the person writing the prompt (using a scripting language) and the programmer/designer of the generation software and curator of the Data set?
I'm not sure I entirely follow you (I'm only half awake, sorry), but programmed music is only generated by computers insofar the computer is generating 44100 samples every second based on a set of mathematical rules the composer made. AI music is generated based on huge datasets and probability; the composer has very little to no specific control.
If I program a instrument/synth in Supercollidor or Pure Data or some hardware synth, and then sample the instrument/synth or create and sequence a melody for it on my MIDI (piano) keyboard or Schism Tracker, etc., I have complete and absolute control over everything, down to the very waveform. In that case I am truly and purely the creator of the piece.
If I type in a prompt, I am just playing a probability lottery. I have done jack shit more than describing a piece of music.
I might have misunderstood you though. For now, I'm going to bed. Good night!
Multiple people are getting paid so they can make a living, more money flows through the economy and even if you don’t personally find it to your taste, it’s still the result of cumulative human efforts.
Gen AI has its uses in personal entertainment but I will spit on the corpo who tries to make me pay for art a person didn’t actually compose/play.
Spotify is no paragon of morality but at least I can find real, human artists via the platform and see/support them in other ways.
When it comes to human expression, I only want my money to go to human expression (even if it’s deemed “soulless”).
This is the bit that pisses me off though. Corporate music has always been soulless slop, and when you point it out "oh that's just like your opinion man".
To get philosophical, because that's what the topic is; mathematics, life, human conciousness are based off similar patterns. Conway's game of life demonstrates purely mathematical cellular automata; when you go down to the chemical level, life is cellular automata with chemicals, which give way to cells, and complex structures and human beings.
Corporate pop does the same fucking shit the godless AI does. People don't sing, they don't give a shit, and it's just there as another piece of slop for idiots to fucking consume. It works in a similar way to the AI; it catches onto patterns, rigid bullshit defined by someone moron that says "hey, the millenial whoop is popular this decade, cram it into the songs we're releasing for fiscal quarter 3". "this year's hot rhythmn is the reggeton clave, shove that in". Then the zillionaire that teenage girls somehow get 1k dollars in order to see goes on stage , dances a bit and DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING SING.
The AI does the same shit "Oh, the guy put in sad, make it pianos and minor chords". But now it's not about fucking opinion, it's a fucking abomination that must be extinguished. "It all sounds like slop" My brother in christ, have you heard 80s pop music?
It's the same fucking pattern.
"oh noz, the AI is putting the real musicians out of bidness" Yeah, corporate pop doesn't do anything like that. That's why the greatest composers of our modern era have to manage touring schedules with working real fucking jobs and making losses on their tours, becuase fuck me, my opinion is worth fucking nothing. It's the same thing. Fucking DJ sets are walking around using synths instead of analog instruments, but that wasn't the crime putting honest musicians out of business, no, it's the fucking guy in india typing in a generic description into sumo ai to turn a quick buck.
How do fake bands dominate spotify when regular ones don't? It's easy; corporate business practices mean that the business side of music (or any endevour, let's fucking face it) is a zillion times more important than the actual musician aspect of music.
If this sounds like I'm on the side of AI; it's not. The point is that it's been too late for fucking decades, acting outraged about what's happening now because it uses new tech is blaming the statistic department for rises in heatwaves.
I wholeheartedly agree with you for the most part, but one thing confuses me. You say
Synthesizers can be both analog or digital. Neither is even remotely comparable to AI music, as there is still a very real composer. Is this a typo/misunderstanding? Thanks for clarification!
just trying to contrast the use of synths to replace musicians that would have to perform with the DJ. Or drum machines, or whatever.
I wasn't trying to contrast analog/digital synths, just "fake" instruments to "real" ones.
Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean?
DJs never performed with bands? Disc Jockey. They’ve always played pre-recorded music.
Synthesizers also aren’t used to replace musicians. It’s a totally different sound. That’s like saying the piano replaced the upright bass because it can hit all the same notes. Just not how that works.
Also why throw shade at synths at all? They’re very far from fake instruments, if you’ve ever sat down to actually understand them and listen to synthesizer dominant music outside of the 80s pop you dislike so much
The idea is drawing paralels to already established bullshit that's been "putting musicians out of business". A person doing a DJ set for a "live gig" like Skrillex should be seen as putting musicians out of business if this stupid elevator music tier AI BS is being put up on spotify. Compare and contrast Skrillex with modern Igorrr, he has like 4 people on stage with him doing a DJ set, Skrillex (or insert solo DJ "performer here) is just alone on stage.
They had the same fear with synthesisers, "who needs a trumpet or flute player when the Moog synthesizer can do it all?! Look at it play an orchestra's worth of sounds on "Switched on Bach"!"
I guess I need to put a signature or whatever on these AI posts : "my point isn't that AI is awesome, it's that human beings have been doing this shit long before neural net AIs came along to make this shit up". The point of the post is "Nobody Cares If Music Is Real Anymore" My point is "They haven't for fucking ages, why the tears now?". It's not "AI generated music great" , its "Humans have been making soulless slop forever"
Also : "Artists already made art worthless during the post modern era with Warhol and Pollock; what are you getting mad at software developers for?"
No I get what you’re trying to say, the problem is your arguments make no sense
The number of musicians on the stage is irrelevant. I’ve seen plenty of shows with a single guitarist. They aren’t costing other musicians anything by doing their own thing
You also are trying to make the point that people “suddenly” care just because it’s AI even though you reference nearly 50 year drama in the same post
Yea there are parallels between the AI slop situation and other technological advances (invention of the camera, moving pictures, typewriters, and so on) which you are trying to illustrate but your illustrations are misguided. There’s a clear difference, and your strategy of throwing artists under the bus isn’t going to accomplish anything. Not that you seem to actually want to accomplish anything other than making some grand proclamation about society
I guess to try to make myself clearer, the technological drama I'm referencing went nowhere. That's the point. The AI isn't the big bad, people are.
Yeah. That's the point of the ramblings : pop music has been shit, and when you pointed it out before AI, it was "hurr hurr it's your opinion, who is it harming?" (and the answer is: people who actually give a shit about music) , but somehow, attaching the same slop generating human behaviour to a new piece of technology makes it seem like the end of the world. Where was this fucking enthusiasm before?
I'm hoping that people stop regarding slop pop and people putting up a banana into a museum as "art" and start actually listening to decent music. It's also an intellectual black hole when people look at a "100% human" piece of slop and call it the greatest thing since sliced bread, and as soon as a piece of technology enters the picture, start vomiting uncontrollably.
You still pay people, not AI. It's people who do it, people who maintain it. People who maintain the AI itself etc. It just shifted from one tech-field to another tech-field. If you'd compare the soulless calculated success pop-shit with the ai-shit that is.
But I get your point.
Your down votes are basically "programmers aren't people"
He he, yup. And all the others around that. REAL artists will never be replaced. The replaceable "artists" probably will. Those that do what the LLM does, just inferior.
The main difference is that AI can't be innovative at all
Corporate pop has never been innovative; at its most Avant Garde it takes experimental aesthetics and crams them into tin pan alley song structures.
Agreed. Ultra commercial music has always existed. With AI, the threshold to creating it is simply much lower. There's nothing magic about music just because it's created by a human, they are very capable of producing bland and uninteresting music too.
I listened to whatever that is for a full minute and it was literally a long screeching note the whole time... Wtf is it supposed to be? Music?
Great, it fucked up. I have heard other people complain about this when I used it as an example, but I JUST NOW heard it too. Fucking whatever. If you actually care try again a few times. If you don't whatever.