this post was submitted on 16 May 2025

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Seeking advice for selfhosting critical data (lemm.ee)

submitted 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) by hamsda@lemm.ee to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

55 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Hello everybody,

my plan is to switch from Android to GrapheneOS. In this process, I want to get rid of my reliance on my google account as much as possible.

To this end, I'd like to selfhost some "critical" data, e.g.

contacts
calendar
online drive for files (e.g. google drive alternative)
some basic note-taking app (like google keep)

and so on.

I do some selfhosting already, though it is not that kind of "cannot lose this" data. So I'd like to share my thoughts and ask for your opinions and experience for the process.

More details for what I want

contacts

have to be syncable to the phone
if possible, some webinterface to edit / browse

calendar

has to be syncable to the phone
webinterface + sync to desktop / phone
if possible, send invite-links to events to others

drive

files of my choosing must be offline-available
ever other file should not use storage on the phone
if possible, able to share links to download files
if possible, able to share links to view with online editor (see below)

document editor

think google sheets / google docs
if possible, able to share links to view documents online

smartphone photos

auto-backup camera folder

There may be some things I'm not thinking about right now, but this seems to pretty much be it.

If possible, all of this should be accessible only via vpn.

What I already have

I have a pfSense physical appliance that's already managing my home network, got an OpenVPN already setup, dynamic DNS working properly for the lack of a static IP, etc.

I own 2 mini-PCs (some Intel NUC, some passive-cooled zotac with an intel with 4c/8t). One of them (zotac) is currently running as my Proxmox Virtual Environment Hypervisor, managing 3 VMs.

I also have a second PC which misses some critical parts, so it is not currently in working condition. I think there's an AM4 mainboard and 16 or 32GB of DDR4 RAM in there. I could make a NAS or a new hypervisor out of this, but the case (Fractal Design Define 7) is quite big and a full PC is probably worse for energy-efficiency than my 2 mini-PCs and is going to be more expensive.

Not much in terms of storage sadly

1x 6TB external USB HDD (used for backups)
1x 2TB external USB HDD (used for data)

What I plan to do

The kind of data I'm going to be hosting myself now is very import, so it cannot be lost or corrupted.

But the feature list doesn't seem to be overly complicated. This seems like something nextcloud could do.

This means, I will probably need to buy

2x 4 TB HDD for storage for data RAID
2x 8-10 TB HDD for backups
2x external RAID case

Then I could connect the data RAID to the already running zotac pc and spin up new VMs for nextcloud and whatever else I might need and start serving my data from home.

The Intel NUC will be used as a Proxmox Backup Server, connected to the backup RAID. Keeping some daily, weekly and monthly backups.

On the phone-side, I'd have the vpn always active. Whenever active, sync of contacts, calendar entries, photos etc. should be possible.

Questions

Is there anything I missed? Did any of you already try something like that? Does anybody here see a potential problem with any of the above?

Can anyone recommend a RAID-1 external enclosure without a fan and some quiet and energy-efficient HDDs?

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[–] koala@programming.dev 3 points 3 hours ago

I assume you basically want protection against disasters, but not high uptime.

(E.g. you likely can live with a week of unavailability if after a week you can recover the data.)

The key is about proper backups. For example, my Nextcloud server is running in a datacenter. Every night I replicate the data to a computer running at home. Every week I run a backup to a USB drive that I keep in a third location. Every month I run a backup to a USB drive on the computer I mentioned at home.

So I could lose two locations and still have my data.

There is much written about backup strategies, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-2-1_backup_rule ... Just start with your configuration, think what can go wrong and what would happen, and add redundancy until you are OK with the risks.

[–] higgsboson@dubvee.org 5 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I use Nextcloud (currently using their AIO docker images) for all of that. Not sure if it checks all the boxes perfectly, but if not it is probably as close as youll find ready-made.

[–] SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

are you using any of the video/audio calls on that setup? how much horsepower does it need?

[–] higgsboson@dubvee.org 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

I have only tested them a bit and it worked fine, but I havent relied on it "in production", as it were. I use that machine for too many things for it to be any kind of benchmark. Mine is running on an old HP workstation w/ a 7th gen iGPU chip. I am also relying on it for plex and unmanic using QSV for transcoding. It only ever has trouble if I over-tax it with those.

[–] gdog05@lemmy.world 6 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

A few things. I also think nextcloud is the way to go for what you want. I've gotten rid of anything Google I can. Except for maps. Man, there just is no substitute especially when mobile.

I always do, but I'm going to suggest Unraid for a NAS. Pay the money and then just enjoy it. I fought with truenas for over a year before I succumbed. You can totally play around with zfs, striped arrays whatever. I do not recommend an external enclosure. I think you'll come to hate it for lack of ability. I recommend biting the bullet and building a machine or putting your current PC components into a real case with upgradability if possible.

Also, I wouldn't plan on running Nextcloud in a VM. Nextcloud is pretty beefy and a VM adds complexity that I suggest against. A docker AIO version of nextcloud running on as close to bare metal as you can is probably the best option for performance.

[–] deafboy@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Did unraid implemented a true raid already, or is it still periodical sync like snapraid? If not, this kind if solution would be great for the multimedia library that does not change often, but I'd go for the more traditional raid for critical data.

[–] trewq@lemm.ee 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

If you don’t mind, what’s the problem with truenas?

[–] gdog05@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I don't think it's a problem per se, as much as it's a difference in priorities. But the docker implementation in TrueNAS is more of an afterthought. I think they've fixed some issues but checking out their forums, many of the issues I faced seem to still exist. Docker packages corrupting and not being accessible in any way, not updating, just seemingly, not robust. Also, I disliked the file permission structure but that's more preference I think. I would say TrueNAS is a great NAS just not the best hypervisor and NAS.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Except for maps. Man, there just is no substitute especially when mobile.

I thought there was an android app for open street maps, but I couldn't find any on play.google.com either.

I do not recommend an external enclosure [...] you’ll come to hate it for lack of ability

I feel kinda the same, but on the other hand, having a full-blown ATX system running in my living room isn't going to be my first choice. If I can't manage with the zotac mini PC, I can still take the drives out of the enclosure and put them in a full ATX case. That's more of a "last resort" though.

A docker AIO version of nextcloud running on as close to bare metal as you can is probably the best option for performance.

I'm not worried about performance all too much. The only thing constantly connected will be my phone, for syncing contacts, calendars and, every now and then, a new photo or two. Sometimes I open the calendar in my browser on my desktop or laptop to add / change an event. I really don't use it too extensively.

And to aid in CPU and performance of the VM, I can always have a VM with the "host" CPU type, which should forward CPU capabilities and features to the VM.

[–] gdog05@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I think you can get Open Street Maps in the F Droid app store. But, as much as I appreciate OSM, it's just not the same as Google maps. The speed, accuracy and information doesn't seem to have an equal.

You definitely can run Nextcloud in a VM. With decent hardware, it will do it. I guess I would say it depends on needs and expectations. My install is not snappy to me. I've got what I feel is a very beefy server but still. Just feels a little slow at times. Totally functional. Just has a small amount of lag when doing anything. I've read people say they have none at all. But when you're busy and relying on it, my suggestion is to eke out everything you can for it for a better experience. Not make or break by any means.

[–] themachine@lemmy.world 31 points 22 hours ago (13 children)

As far as the "what you want" stuff goes, Nextcloud can do all of it and I use it for exactly that.

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[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 10 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

I've done this.

For contacts, calendar, and files, I use OwnCloud, although NextCloud is as good/better. I couldn't figure out Self-Signing certificates, which is supposed to be pretty easy, but I am kind of a dummy. NextCloud requires it. On my phone, I use DAVx5, and I replaced the GrapheneOS stock apps with Fossify apps as needed - although that is up to personal preference.

For photos, I use Immich, which is hands-down the best option.

NextCloud also has options for document editing, photo backup, and notes, but I can't testify to those.

Syncthing is an ideal way to seamlessly sync files and folders between devices, but you will end up with the files on both devices. I use it sparingly, and they are phasing out android support. It's still very useful to migrate large file libraries and act as a stopgap for other services.

There are tons of notes apps, and it largely comes down to preference. I settled on NotallyX, which can import your Keep notes directly (using Google Takeout iirc). It also has the option to store files externally, which means they can be synced for backup. There are also self-hosted web-apps, like Memos, or the slightly more adventurous Blinko.

I got a lot of great input from this community not too long ago.

The one Google feature I am not able to reproduce is Google Messages. If you use texting to any degree, there are some FOSS apps with pretty nice basic features (I'm using Fossify which is nice). However, there are none that have solid group-messaging features, reactions, and other RCS capabilities. It seems to be a technical/logistical/legal hurdle that is presently insurmountable. Lots of people don't use texting anyway, so it may not be a concern for you.

Edit: And of course, you need a way to tie everything together. I use Tailscale, which is ridiculously easy to self-host.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Thank you for sharing your experience of the process!

On my phone, I use DAVx5

I'm a little confused after looking at the website. What exactly does DAVx5 do? The regular re-sync of contacts, calendar and files itself? Shouldn't that be done by the contacts app / calendar app on regular intervalls?

with Fossify apps

I just downloaded fossify calendar on my android a few days ago to test it and got to see the other fossify apps :)

syncthing phasing out android support

Oh man, I already use syncthing for ~5 GB of files and I use it on my android too. Seems I'll be trying syncthing-android-fdroid in the future then.

There are tons of notes apps

There really are a lot! NotallyX looks nice and simple, but memos also looks very interesting. And thank you for the link, I'll go dive into that tomorrow.

The one Google feature I am not able to reproduce is Google Messages

I do not need RCS-compatible messengers. What I send via SMS is nothing more than pure text, also no group chats. I use signal and element for my "fancy" messaging needs :)

I use Tailscale

I'll look into it some more over the next days, but on a quick glance, this seems like it is an online service where you need an account? If that's the case, I'd prefer using my already running OpenVPN server to do the job.

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

DAVx5 basically acts as the connector between your server and your calendar/contacts/files apps. I would imagine that this could be built into an app, but there are a lot of ways that such apps can sync or operate locally. I'm guessing that it is just a little more specialized than most developers want to get.

Thanks for the Syncthing-Fork tip! For now the official version is working for me, but I'll have to migrate myself soon.

From my understanding, OpenVPN provides the same secure remote access as Tailscale, by a slightly different method. You should be fine to use what you've already set up.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago

DAVx5 basically acts as the connector between your server and your calendar/contacts/files apps

Thank you for the explanation. I'll probably be testing a lot of FOSS apps on my current android before I make the switch, so it's good to know that I have to look out not just for usability, but also connectivity!

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 10 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

3-2-1?

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 3 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

Thank you for your input!

I also thought about the 3-2-1 backup rule, but am unsure if that is overkill.

My VM-backups and file-level-backups are proxmox backup server (pbs) backups. Meaning, to have them offsite, I'd need to rent a dedicated root server on which I am able to install pbs to act as an offsite sync-target. With TB of backups, this is gonna get very costly very fast.

I thought about regularly exporting encrypted calendar and contacts onto some free online storage, hoping I can automate this process.

With what I have layed out in my post, to lose contacts and calendar events, both my intel NUC and the zotac mini-PC have to be corrupted at the same time. Or both RAIDs simultaniously failing both drives. Am I not paranoid enough or is that an acceptable level of failure-safety?

[–] emuspawn@orbiting.observer 4 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

What @AtariDump@lemmy.world said is correct, if it's critical data, 3-2-1 is necessary. I personally use BuyVM as my offsite as it's got pretty cheap storage (~$5USD/1TB/month), but if you've got family or friends with a decent internet connection, it's trivial to set up a remote sync job to any offsite Proxmox Backup Server, perhaps on a box stored at their house.

Now, just to throw it out there, my actual 'critical data' is way smaller than my total backed up data, including my media library, random ISOs, etc. - it can be worthwhile to determine if you really need to backup everything offsite or if you can sort out some less necessary data, and only upload some data to a remote server. Maybe the answer is yes, and you'll need to account for that!

[–] hoppolito@mander.xyz 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I took a look at the BuyVM offer you mentioned since it sounds really good, but am I understanding correctly that to make use of the 1TB storage offer I would have to also order a dedicated VM with them to actually make use of it? (i.e. no mounting from a vps with a different provider)

[–] emuspawn@orbiting.observer 1 points 3 hours ago

That's correct, I also pay for their cheapest VPS, which is about $3, pretty good overall for my purposes!

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 8 hours ago

Now, just to throw it out there, my actual ‘critical data’ is way smaller than my total backed up data

That's also the case for me. I'd probably count a few GB as critical. Contacts, Calendar, some photos, some documents.

If nextcloud (or some other alternative) has the ability to regularly export these things to an on-disk location, I could definitely backup that to some cheap hetzner server. This will not be a pbs backup, but I can get by with an offsite-backup done by something like restic or rsnapshot

Thank you for your advice!

[–] MajesticElevator@lemmy.zip 8 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

The offsite rule is mainly in the scenario where your house burns down for example, or if someone steals your stuff. It can happen.

Maybe your electricity will have variations and will fuck up all your devices in a specific location..

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, you're right. As David From Space said in this comment, the real critical data is far less then all of the backed up data.

So I definitely can have an offsite-backup, it just depends on if I can single these things out in nextcloud, possibly via regular export to the filesystem.

[–] MajesticElevator@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

Yea if you don’t need much then you can do with exporting not a lot of stuff.

Google is evil but I know that GDrive has pretty low prices on data storage

There are many cold storage services out there with good pricing. If you need a VPS with good storage (to automate sync, etc.. idk), I know I would use Interservers, based in the USA, priced at 3$/TB/month (HDD)

But if you only want to sync a small amount then you can do with free services, probably. Don’t forget to encrypt everything when uploading to these services! Don’t want them to be able to see the content of your files.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 3 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Or a house fire, or flood, or lightning strike, or theft. Or just plain fat fingering something and deleting it all.

If you really mean life-or-death critical, yeah, 3-2-1 is the starting point.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

If you really mean life-or-death critical

No data I own is "life-or-death" critical.

I can ask around for contact info again, same with calendar events I had planned. Some documents can be restored via the original service or by paying a fee to get a new original document, I still have folders full of originals in paper form. Some info can be restored by looking through my bank account or online buying activity. Losing my photos would be really sad, but nothing of that will kill me or destroy my life.

But I definitely can save the most critical stuff (probably a few GB only), if nextcloud (or some alternative) has the ability to regularly export these to an on-disk location. This way, some backup utility like restic or rsnapshot shoud be able to do the job.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago

Okay so not critical, just mildly inconvenient if lost.

I would just keep one copy in RAID, and for the most important stuff a second copy locally or in the cloud. Yes, RAID is not backup, but a disk failure is probably the most likely failure scenario. Corruption is the second most likely.

[–] AtariDump@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

I also thought about the 3-2-1 backup rule, but am unsure if that is overkill.

Maybe you shouldn’t be home hosting critical data if you think this is overkill.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

You've got a point, but now I gotta ask: Where do you store your original paperform documents? You know, the real-life critical things. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like most people store these things at home, possibly tucked away in a neat, little, sorted folder, for preservation. Which would be a nightmare for all the same reasons, but seems strangely accepted and widely practiced.

No data I own is life-or-death critical. Losing everything would be really bad, but many things can be restored in alternative ways, except the photos.

Also, I may be able to backup the most important stuff (which would only be a few GB at most) to an offsite server, as long as nextcloud (or an alternative) is able to export contacts, calendar and photos, or I can single these out in some other way. As long as this somehow works, I can rent a cheap hetzner server with a few GB of storage and have that be the backup target for the most critical stuff.

[–] AtariDump@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

My critical documents that MUST be in print are stored in a fireproof safe. If it doesn’t need to be in print it’s scanned, shredded, and backed up.

Photos are scanned and stored. They’re also backed up.

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

For document editing, I have had fairly good luck with OnlyOffice, although it is not without its issues. Others also recommend Collabora, which plays well with NextCloud and LibreOffice.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago

Thank you for the tipps!

A quick google search even reveals a nextcloud tutorial on how to install it . I'll definitely try that out.

[–] garshol@infosec.pub 4 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

ZFS on the bottom, Nextcloud on top. Which distro is up to you. Mine is to be set up with nix on my next refresh this fall. Already in testing.

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[–] Jjoiq@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

Memos is pretty usefull for me. App on fdroid momemos is superb. Syncthig takes care of google drive ish needs. Immich for photos.

Mealie keeps food interesting.

Have not done calendar or contacts yet.

Running a few on a low power pi5 using docker for the most backup pihole runs on baremetal.

1 16tb external and 2 5tb external. Not the best but i dig it.

I need a nuc.

[–] hamsda@lemm.ee 1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Memos is pretty usefull for me. App on fdroid momemos is superb. Syncthig takes care of google drive ish needs. Immich for photos. Mealie keeps food interesting.

I'm going to have to test a lot of new android apps, I guess. Thanks for the mentions!

Regarding syncthing, according to gedaliyah's answer here, syncthing will be dropping the android app :(

[–] iempqob4@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

For whats it's worth I've been running a fork of the syncthing android app for well over a year now and it's not skipped a beat.

https://github.com/Catfriend1/syncthing-android

Up to personal preference if you trust a fork for this work. But with sufficent backups I'm comfortable with it.

[–] Jjoiq@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Ah yes forgot to mention in my family we run syncthing fork from fdroid also.

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