The process is a scam.

The end result is not.

I went through it. The process was absolutely designed to keep me there as long as possible, spending as much money as possible. I had to jump through ridiculous hoops that had nothing to do with my education. Parking was awful. There weren't enough seats in some of my classes and I had to sit on the floor with a few others (not joking).

But at the end you get your degree and that opens doors to more cushy, high paying jobs. I have friends that are doing fine monetarily without the degree, but they're working a lot harder for it.

Does the college route need major reform? Abso-fucking-lutely. Does it still put you ahead? Sure does.

I wouldn’t say it’s a necessarily scam, but degrees have become so common as to be nearly worthless outside of specialist fields.

If you can afford it, getting a degree is pretty much always better than not having one, but there are plenty of career paths that don’t require a degree.

By looking at data instead of fixating on you. It's very clearly still worth it. By a long shot.

I am a little younger than you are and want to m offer my life perspective first and some thoughts later.

I pursued a higher education because i honestly liked studying and I went into STEM because that’s what I was passionate about. Throughout, I was an outstanding student. I continued after the master with a PhD, then two postdocs then (finally) a foxed professor position. I moved a lot for my job (8 times/5 countries/4 languages other than my own), prioritizing the best jobs over geographic convenience. I’m happy with my CV and my current position. I know I could earn better outside of the academic system, but I enjoy it too much to leave it and the pay is not bad.

Of fellow students, most of the ones i kept in contact with fit into two groups: either their life looks like mine or they preferred being geographically bound and progressed less in their career. Some are teachers. All are happy, none have debt (EU universities). Of my students, we follow them for one or two years after the company of their classes, mostly grave technical jobs in the specialization of their choice.

From my experience, university education in a specific field is not only a meaningful life experience (if you are proactive it usually allows you to travel around on a very limited budget) but also a potential trampoline for a (technical) career. But the situation in the US is more complicated.

1. the paths are less structured, courses are given in a “pick what you want” fashion. A lot of students get lost in the options, following lower tier courses in a lot of topics and thus having a CV that doesn’t give any specificity.

2. “greek life” is hailed as the cool path. That’s one way to drink away your college years and float around aimlessly. It could be a path to make meaningful connections in a chosen field, but that’s rare and unlikely.

3. costs. All my schooling has been done in Europe. The only private university I went to costed 500€/semester. I graduated with no debt thanks to the support of my family, that I can estimate to be under 25K€ over 5 years (mostly rent and food while abroad). That’s peanuts compared to a US higher education cost.

4. overall less following of the students from the professors. Professors are there to teach, not to offer life advice, while in Europe there is more of a mentoring relationship that evolves. This leaves the students to figure out their path out of university on their own.

I think that of you have a precise plan in mind (example: I want to be a marine biologist in the Bay Area) and you have done your research on how many jobs there are, what they ask for, and how to get the right qualifications, university might still be the right choice. If you come out of high school with no concrete plan, jumping into a college campus will muddy the waters and be stupidly expensive.

Sorry this became so long. Last paragraph is the conclusion…

Firstly, higher education should be free, or subsidised to the point of being as close to free as possible. If normal people have to choose between higher education and a huge debt, it's going to reasonably push people away who would otherwise want to continue learning.

The point of it should not be to get a job, that should just be a nice bonus. The point of it is to learn in depth about a subject you're interested in and ultimately develop valuable critical thinking and problem solving skills that don't really get exercised much in schools prior to higher education (at least where I'm from).

Given the reality is that it probably has to lead to a job in a lot of circumstances, there's still plenty of fields where the degree is necessary to participate, and many more where it's going to be a hurdle if someone doesn't have one. On the other hand, there're plenty of fields where someone would have no issues in skipping the degree and doing some kind of apprenticeship. So if future job prospects are the ultimate decider, what you should encourage really depends what your son wants to work as.

I finished my degree about a decade and a half ago and I think I've definitely benefited more from having done it than if I'd not IMO

I'm in a similar boat, 2 bachelors and a master in stem fields, 46 years old and dirt poor. Given up on retirement and home ownership. I'm pushing my kids to finish high school, after that tertiary education is only for if they want a career that needs it. Been teaching them their whole lives to lower their expectations, and enjoy the simple pleasures. God I feel terrible for forcing them into the world.

In social countries like France, you can get well recognized university degrees for cheap or even free, if your family is poor, with help for food and accomodations, and not only for top achievers. I wish it was like this in every country.

University brings more than a certificate to pass a recruiting process, it changes who you are by making you a more educated person, this is important too. But I understand that's not compelling enough if that means getting years of debt to repay.

I’m a specialist in human services. It’s not a tremendously hard job, but it takes about six years so get…so you have to be dedicated. I make good money. Just cant pick anything like you used to.

Don't know where located, but here's a news article comparing the "Return on Investment" for colleges in California: https://archive.ph/gIv6g

It's based on work at Georgetown: https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/roi2025/

IMO, University life is more than just the money potential. It's also about socializing and learning critical thinking.

A lot of people go through it by just sitting in class and not interacting with others, or over-indexing on 'making connections.' You can get some of that elsewhere, through trades and apprenticeship. But being around a critical mass of others at roughly the same age and demographic is something hard to replicate elsewhere at that point in life.

It depends on the field of study.

The quality of most degrees has been falling, at least here in Belgium. That's because the subsidy structure incentivises the universities to pushing out as many degrees as possible.

So many uni degrees function the same way a high school degree would've in the past.

Trades like electrician, plumber, hvac, ... are also an option for your son to consider.

I feel like a liar already for trying to convince him that if he just works hard at something it'll eventually pay off

If you work hard at some things, that's as true now as ever. Of course you can't just pick anything and expect to make a career out of it just because you work hard. Most olympic athletes have a dayjob.

I'm chiming in unprompted, because I agree with you with a big "but" in the middle.

Yeah, the educational system is pretty much a scam nowadays, and I think this is applicable around the world. It's geared toward producing workers more than it is toward actually educating children, and it shows. Plus private education's a big business first and foremost, with public education having suffered greatly for it.

And here comes the "but": I think it's worth it anyway, for the most part and as long as it isn't a major economic drain.

The reason I believe this is because, as all things, education's on a spectrum. Some teachers are in it to clock in, clock out, and cash the paycheck. But there still are many who are trying to provide genuine education, even when constrained by how things work nowadays.

In addition to this, while most contemporary educational systems have major shortcomings, like not encouraging the development of critical thinking, stuffing the brain with half-contextualised information, and now the trend of having LLMs write everything from theses to letters of intent, it's still a good disseminator of information. Plus having a curriculum makes it easier to navigate and advance through said information.

As such, I believe education's still worth it, but that it needs a lot of compensating from the parents if it is to be optimised - things like telling your son the truth about the world (that, indeed, there is no guarantee that education will bring him a comfortable life, for instance), taking active interest in the subjects he's attending, recontextualising the information he gets from school/studies whenever necessary, compensating for gaps, etc.

It's at least easier to develop one's knowledge base and understanding of things while attending school than it is without. Plus borders are slowly turning into pure abstracts, with people being able to take jobs anywhere. So if his education is not properly recognised in his home country, he could always try to equivalate abroad - not all countries are dumb enough to turn down educated people.

And it's not even just about the education, it's also about the social context and development, getting used to teamwork, socialisation, etc. These, I think, are essential for development, because it's becoming harder and harder to even socialise with people.

Perhaps worth identifying your previous degrees and country? Where I reside, there is an incredible short fall in some areas that require additional education or tertiary education. So, no, higher learning isn't a scam.. however I would encourage searching for a reputable university in an area with a growing need. Perhaps it's worth searching for your government "planning for the future" to see which careers they feel will be required in the future

There are two questions:

1. Is college a scam?
2. Should I advise my child go to college?

Is college a scam?

College is attempting, and failing in my opinion, in trying to balance two demands. The first is preparing young adults for a working life and earn enough money that allows them to pay their debts and create a stable life. The second is to open their minds to a multitude of ways of thinking through a liberal arts education.

Rarely are young adults able to do both. Those that do so, rarely do it simultaneously. Rather, they get the liberal arts education and then get a graduate degree in a field that has a state protected license.

Those who pursue a technical degree usually see their liberal arts requirements as an inconvenience. They graduate and are able to find work that pays off any debt they took on and move up the corporate ladder enough to stabilize their lifestyle.

Those who pursue a liberal arts degree are in a much worse position economically, but see the world with a wider perspective and can see the issues from multiple angles. Their civic duty extends beyond their job and family. They are more readily to being aware of effects that corporations and political agents can have on society and the worst off. However, they usually have adopted an unrelatable disposition and lack the means to make change or even feed themselves without fear of an unforeseen incident changing their lives dramatically.

It is a scam because it claims you can do both.

So beyond that initial assessment. Would someone who pursues college to get either a technical degree or a protected license be better than one who does. Unequivocally, yes. However, if they don't meet the cut, the amount of debt they took on to get there, especially if they pursue a protected license, will be crippling.

As for pursuing a career path separate from college, you have people who seek jobs in the trades and those who seek uneducated positions. When people say the statistics say college is better, they fail to separate out these categories. Many people aren't in a position to leverage the benefits of college to justify the debt.

For those in the rare position to have to choose between getting a competitive and costly technical degree and pursuing trade school, you'd have to assess your chances of making the cut and finding out if you're the type whose only interested in the technical work or if you're inclined to start your own company. The latter can out earn a college educated technically trained and employed person.

What Should You Advise Your Child?

Each child is unique and with the narrowing utility of college, it makes it harder to universally recommend college to every kid. I went to college just before prices got really out of hand, but still at the time where it was universally recommended. But the people who benefitted the most were the ones who went to college in the 70s and 80s.

In this day and age, you need to really know why you're going so that you can work hard to get what you want out of it. This may mean waiting a few years till you know your drive better and the lifestyle you want to live. You'll have to learn a lot of soft skills to parley your degree into a job and your job into a career, but this has always been true to varying extents.

If your kid is finishing high school in the next year or so, I'd probably consider staying away from a CS degree. The industry has no clue who they are or what they want from recent grads.

I will say that someone who skips university should plan to at least spend a few hours every week studying history, philosophy, the arts, and a healthy helping of various sciences in order to have a foundation for perceiving the world in a context that is not formed solely by propaganda and latent biases.

The rest of us would do well to follow suit, but we're too busy paying off student loans.

Yeh. It’s become too big and too much of a diluted industry. People look at it as a magic bullet. I believe I. Education but now it’s just become another scam on those wanting to make life better.

AI is only going to make it worse from an edu and an employability aspect.

I have been having the same thoughts for my child’s future. I would no longer recommend uni to them.