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Homeplugs (ethernet over power) are fine for some things, but they add so much latency to the network.
Wired is so much better.
I mean does anyone go for power line adapters as their first choice when straight up ethernet is an option?
The number of people that are anti wires, but also want WiFi signals everywhere is too high.
Powerline is so leaky it is basically wireless with wires. 14x3 is not a transmission line, but it does effectively turn your whole home electrical system into both a transmitting and receiving antenna that just happens to talk to it's self. It's an engineering nightmare.
I want wires everywhere I don't care fuck wireless signals give me wired headphones, controllers, networks
Me and my homies hate antennas
i like the idea of wired headphones, but in practice they're kind of annoying
Powerline adapters are almost always a "last resort" option.
As a network guy: Ethernet over power lines can be fine, but you basically need to be an electrician, and have a working knowledge of how powerline Ethernet works before you can get there.
Even if you do, or stumble into a working setup by accident, you can absolutely end up with all kinds of bad things happening because power lines are notoriously bad with crosstalk and EMI, both on the wire and emitted from it.
If you absolutely cannot do rj45/Ethernet runs, and WiFi isn't viable for whatever reason (or even if it is), look into MoCA. Thank me later.
It won't cost you any more than powerline, and you'll get a cleaner signal, more consistent performance, and overall a better experience.
In order of preference, I prefer the following connection options:
Fiber, not because it's faster or better (there are many ways it's actually worse than Ethernet), but because it's almost impossible to interfere with, unless someone physically disconnects the cable (or breaks/cuts it). As long as the line is protected from damage, it will give the most consistent performance.
Ethernet, more robust than fiber in terms of physical disability, can be faster at propagating data (the time it takes to get from one end of the cable to the other), but only works over relatively short runs (100m or less, by spec), and it's susceptible to alien interference and crosstalk. However, it is far more rugged than fiber.
MoCA is half duplex but shares a lot of the benefits of Ethernet. The main improvement here is that coax is commonly present in most homes already, while Ethernet is relatively uncommon in homes, so many homes are already wired in a way that works with MoCA.
Wi-Fi is also half duplex, it can go faster than Ethernet under the right conditions (which are almost impossible to achieve in real world conditions). Propagation is as fast as Ethernet but it has more overhead, and it is much more prone to interference from other Wi-Fi networks or other things operating on the same, unlicensed, bands.
Powerline should only be considered if all of the other options are disqualified for some reason.
Also, anyone using wifi extenders (not talking about mesh or anything, just actual Wi-Fi extenders), should probably not be doing that. Wi-Fi extenders are often just retransmitting the packets on the same wifi channel, which dramatically cuts the available bandwidth. You'll end up with a stronger connection, but a much slower one.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
+1 for MoCA
I switched from powerline to MoCA about 10 years ago, and it was a huge step up. Even though it's half duplex, since MoCA version 2.5, there is enough total bandwidth available to sustain 1 Gbps in 2 directions simultaneously, so it is functionally almost equivalent to full duplex 1 gig Ethernet (except for few ms of extra latency)
My experience has been different. Wifi extenders were not very reliable. Wifi devices were better, but powerline extenders have been rock solid. Ping times are right in line with wired Ethernet too.
In my experience powerline extenders are a reasonable alternative to Ethernet for home users in places where running a cable isn't an option.
Just to add that proper mesh systems are distinct from extenders as they will use separate mesh channels for back haul. They also have the "travel AP" things which act as extenders but form a new network on a different channel. You can actually do this with many Android phones as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
Similar idea to powerline adapters, except over coax lines instead.
Homeplug is a defunct standard that had some real limitations, Ethernet over Power is a generic term relates to any standard of network over power lines.
The G.hn powerline standard is a massive improvement (despite being almost as old and is closer to MoCA as it will actually work over coax and other copper wiring, not just power lines) for both performance and stability, but the Homeplug standards have probably ruined the public perception.
G.hn is also a bit weird because the Wikipedia page presents it as how carriers could use, not as a home network option, even though a few home pieces of equipment are available, such as the TP-Link Deco PX50 which uses G.hn for the wifi backhaul.
Okay yes, but tell that to 15 year old me who was absolutely AMAZED that you could just.... Route the Ethernet through the electricity, frickin magic
I mean, that still is dope as heck.
The only thing they are good at doing is producing loads of RFI and pissing off every ham radio operator in the area.
One of the best no-noise locations I ever did was in a fully powered-down sailboat in the southern lagoon at Fort Jefferson, Dry Tortugas. Leaky consumer electronics are the worst.
To contrast, I managed to work Indonesia from Alamogordo NM despite being in a residential neighborhood, HVAC capacitors and foreign over-the-horizon-radar (OTHR) be damned. Taught me a lot about being patient and picking out transmissions in the noise.
The users reading this post that think you are referring to PoE are innocent and pure.
Behold. Power line communication https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication
EoP - Ethernet over Power
I live in a house designed by a boomer. Networking comes in the upper floor while nothing is in the lower
These power over Ethernet is the only way I can get networking down stairs.
I don't mean to alarm you, but networking was designed by boomers.
😱
surely you mean ethernet over power; power over ethernet is a different thing.
I used to use Homeplug to get network from my router front downstairs of the house to the my office upstairs and back. It's a small house, and I thought the homeplug was ok - I was getting about 150-200mbps of my 900mbps; not great but I thought it was a good as I could get. The electrics are about 10 years old but I could see there was a lot of noise and error correction when I looked at the software that came with the plugs. Simple direct wifi connection was atrocious as the walls are largely solid brick.
Then a couple of years later I read about how good they Mesh systems could be so I decided to try a cheap one. I was skeptical as wifi hadn't worked for me. I got a Google Wifi system (not a fan of google but it was a cheap system compared to other mesh networks); it has no backhaul connection, just 3 wifi points (one in front room, one in hallway and one in office), and my speed jumped to 500mbps and low latency. I also hadn't realised how bad the latency had been on my homeplug set up - it was night and day.
I have since upgraded to an ASUS XT8 system; 2 units only and I now get close to 800mbps on a good day, and 600-700mbps floor. My PC in my office is where I work (which involves high data transfers) and also game and chill, it's been a huge boon.
So yeah, Homeplug does the job but it's not great in my experience. It was cheap compared to a mesh network, but you get what you pay for. You can get some of the cheaper and older mesh systems 2nd hand on ebay - but unfortunately a good system is pricey. In my experience it was totally worth it.
If you use these powerline plugs, your house is also a huge antenna.
My internet access dropped occasionally until a telcom guy found the culprit. It was a neighbor using a Devolo powerlan adapter.
So yes, don't use these. The only useful frequency in power cables is 50 or 60 Hz.
Fun true story. I tried EoP when I moved into my townhome to feed Ethernet to my TV. For like 6 months I get weird issues where my TV would stop letting me connect from my phone.
Trying to diagnose it, I started disconnecting stuff. Finally, I had a single EoP plugged into wall and nothing else. Still had Internet, WTF ...
Turns out one of my neighbors also has EoP and I was connecting to his network. Crazy shit
Went to MoCA after that.
I've heard of power over Ethernet (PoE for IP cams) but not Ethernet over power.
You can send stuff through the home power sockets? WTF first time I heard this sounds like magic
It's old magic too and in a pinch it works reasonably well.
We use this as a networking option for an old dorm I was in which didn't have ethernet and the concrete walls between rooms made Wi-Fi unusable.
Blocks of rooms were not separated on different circuits which made this possible
Was it not possible to draw Ethernet, or did they just want the cheapest solution? I consulted for a place that had a similar situation, and it was unacceptable for most of the students due to the jitter. So we drew Ethernet and put mini APs in each room.
But I wasn't facility. I was a student.
The dorm itself did not have internet and had no plans of running ethernet or providing internet to students.
I got internet through a wireless access point, positioned very carefully in window for a WISP. And they distributed that to rooms near me.
It's always possible, but not often practical, especially when you don't have permission to drill holes in those concrete walls.
I suppose you could do surface runs, but those are ugly and more vulnerable to physical damage.
This post is missing some key information. What's the network topology before and after? Presumably not just unplugging a pair of powerline adapters.
Ok, switch in the shed/office into switch in the garage, switch in the garage into powerline to switch by the router.
Run cable from the garage to the switch by the router and remove 1 of 3 powerline plugs, so yeah just removing a single plug helps so much
Well I am running a Mesh network with Gh.n powerline, and it's very stable. Of course the Ethernet backend would be faster, but I don't want cables running down in my corridor.
Not surprised, as we were getting higher speeds the Ethernet wire also was upgraded. The electrical wires were never set up with data transfer in mind + you might get additional interferences from other devices plugged in.
So it probably needs to retransmit packets frequently.
I once replaced a cheap pair of adapters with a more expensive pair. Was night and day for my network stability. I know it's hit or miss, depending on your wiring and location. But the adapters themselves can differ.
I did switch from homeplugs to mesh wifi. The difference night and day. Less latency, faster and overall more stable.
I arrived at that conclusion because my servers were using a NAs as storage for most services, all of them separated by homeplugs.
When I relocated the NAS with the servers, everything went smoothly so yeah. Removed all of that and used mesh wifi instead (because the line for internet isn’t in the same room as the servers)