kichae

Bingo. Especially when what they've done to trigger the comments telllimf them to "play something else" is ask how to extend the thing they already like, or to replace some subsystem that is so clealy not core to the game.

But with 5e, there are also just so many third party releases that you can also replace core systems, like magic, with little difficulty, and people know it.

They don't want to play something else. They're not ready to try something else. They want to keep their dragon ampersand and their dis/advantage rolls, and telling them they're doing something wrong by holding on to that isn't convincing. It just communicates that other games are played by fucking assholes with boundary issues.

Ok, but these discussions aren't happening at you're table. "Well, fuck them then" isn't exactly helpful.

Aye. NodeBB and Lemmy have a couple of rough edges here and there.

Sute, but the thing they like is "D&D", and D&D isn't just a game anymore, it's an identity signifier. Pointing people to other games before establishing yourself as firmly not attacking their identity is going to trigger a fight.

alexanderthedead@lemmy.world said in A lesson so many need to learn: > Anyone who wants to make the claim that the system is bad will have bang their subjective arguments against the steel wall that is its popularity.

Yes, but this is a thing that people want to do. They want to try and dent that popularity, and they want to shift some of it towards their own preferences. It doesn't matter that it's a subjective opinion on what is better or what is bad, it doesn't feel subjective to the person interjecting.

They believe their preferred game is better, they probably have had this discussion numerous times with people who have ignored them or chewed them out for trying to evangelize, and they are infinitely frustrated that others won't see the light.

People who leave popular things behind for niche things often just have this habit of having to bury the thing they left behind. It can't be good. The new thing is better, but the new thing is better both because it is better, and also because the old thing was just objectively bad.

People do this with a lot of things. TV shows, ice cream flavours, toys they used to play with as kids. There's a sense of shame attached to having liked the old thing, not just a sense of joy of having found the new one. It's one of the reasons the people they evangelize to get so defensive: They can sense that they are being judged.

But they definitely can do the thing, because it's a game of make-believe. Again, this is not hammering in a screw, it's mental systems for deciding how imaginary doings transpire.

They didn't ask the wrong question, though. You're seeing a solution they do not want and do not care about then blaming them for not listening to the unsolicited advice.

The problem isn't on their end.

It's not on them, though. They didn't ask if there was a Dragon Age RPG, they asked if they could play Dragon Age in D&D.

Those are different questions.

And here's the thing. You can't really tell them "no", because they know it's an imagination game where the rules are whatever the table decides upon. They're not asking if, they are asking how.

Like, there are ways to reditect people, but just ignoring their question to jump straight to their underlying problem when they don't acknowledge that solution doesn't open them up to listening. It shuts them down, it makes them defensive, and it ultimatelt makes them hostile to your suggestions.

That's not "on them", because that's a "you're kind of shit at communicating" problem.

The thing is, this applies much less firmly to an imagination game where you can easily bolt on a sub-system to do that one thing you wanted to do differently than, say, if someone wants to beat in a screw with a hammer.

And yes, maybe there are people who want to gut their whole game and rebuild it from scratch for some reason, just because they really love sailing on their ship of Thesus, and would be better served by trying a new system. But if they don't want to do that, someone trying to redirect the conversation in that direction are going to be viewed as hostile and smug, not helpful.

I've also found that it's really easy to convert D&D 3.x and PF1 modules to the system. Not so easy that thought and care doesn't need to be put into it, but most creatures are based off of the 3e monsters, and there's a similar philosophy of DC adjustments. So, you get both Paizo's catalogue of well designed adventure books, as well as a massive back catalogue of classic favourites that you can dig out for a relatively modest effort.

Fair. I definitely haven't engaged with the 5e community to the same extent I have with the PF2 one. I never became a special interest to me the way Pathfinder has.

It definitely trips up people who usually just look at RPGBot to build their characters out from levels 1 - 20 before the first session. That's how I made my build choices, and it was a pretty significant stumbling block for me when I made the switch.

The blue options aren't always the best options, because the best options depend on what everyone else is doing.