this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2025
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Reading the story, the "gangbang" part wasn't like a huge orchestrated planned event. The kids were lost in the dark, loosing hope, and knew that IT wanted them to feel down and weak as alone they could be defeated by IT.
In an effort to make them feel close, Beverly took it up her self to make them all Eskimo Brothers. This brought the Losers Club back into solidarity.
I'm a big fan of Stephen Kings work. He's deserving of respect as a writer and story teller. Your explanation is reasonable and true in the context of the story.
There is just no way to talk about, write about, discuss, etc, stuff like that, without the air in the room not going still as fuck. All of what you say is true, it's still.... off.
And that book was just a bit too long, but again, great book, great writer, questionable AS FUCK portion.
cocaine
Ya know, people keep saying this, but I've tried coke before, and preteen sex didn't cross my mind once during it.
We're you writing a book about pre-teens being lured by a murderous clown when you did cocaine? No, I didn't think so!
The people saying it have probably never seen an illegal drug before much less party time Adderall
I agree, coke makes you an annoying motormouth with no filter. If kiddie shit is what comes out then that's just what was inside to begin with.
I don't think that's true at all. I think there are a lot of people out there who could discuss it, but that requires a significant degree of emotional maturity and there are too many people who can't step back and be open to discussing topics which make them uncomfortable.
Mate, where are you going with this? Aldous Huxely erotic play for children? I think you're missing the point. It's not a discussion because the fallacy purported by the writer was to give 12 year olds emotions, desires, and mental processes that they simply have not yet developed. Beverly, the twelve year old girl, wouldn't think to have sex with her friends to comfort them. Full stop. That's the writer putting these emotions where they simply wouldn't exist. And. Creepy.
It's not maturity. Maturity is knowing that twelve year olds don't reason that way.
Ummm was your childhood stunted or something? 12yos absolutely can be capable of complex emotional intelligence and reasoning. Hell, for most of humanity "childhood" wasn't even a concept and an adult was anyone over 13.
And don't get me wrong, that we can gift our young the idea of "childhood" is simply one of the greatest achievements of the modern world, so I'm not out here trying to say kids should be considered adults again, but I think you are vastly underestimating the capability of children. Especially children who are trauma survivors and haven't had the benefit of the slow progress of childhood gifted to them.
Well, she would, because she's a child sexual abuse survivor and it's a hypersexualization thing and a result of how she's been told things work by the adults taking advantage of her.
Still fucked up to type that out and not have some editor say "Are you doing okay, Stevie?"
And don't pretend this is only fucked up sexual thing he's written about children.
This is a very well-made point which does make a very good case for her actions fitting with her backstory.
However, a) it really only works as a post-hoc rationalisation for the scene, rather than an explantation for why the book is better with it, and b) speaking about consistency and foreplanning is somewhat undermined by the climax of the book being “…actually, it’s a…giant alien spider!”
As a writer, I disagree. Writers often write thinking from the perspective of their characters. If something makes sense from the character’s perspective, they’ll write it. It’s not an endorsement by the writer, it just makes for a natural and believable progression and that’s why the book is better for it.
I can bet you King never decided that he should include such a scene because it would make the book better. He did it because he was writing from her perspective, and it popped into his mind as something that made sense for her to do.
It’s not a fantasy, not an endorsement, and not a post-rationalisation either. And knowing his writing style, upon reflection he probably felt it belonged for shock value alone. Writers do have a knack for pushing boundaries, and he’s certainly got a taste of it.
Oh, trust me, I’ve had the “right, I need you to do x for the plot”, “well, I wouldn’t do that so I’m not going to” conversation with characters I’m writing.
But, let’s give King the benefit of the doubt and say that that’s how and why he came up with the idea…that’s a reason to have Beverly suggest it. Not a reason to have it actually happen.
Also, if “relating to people sexually” was a consistent character trait of hers, I don’t remember it actually coming up in the novel before that point. It’s been a long time since I read it and maybe she does proposition people often and inappropriately, but I remember thinking that the orgy came somewhat out of the blue, and I’d have thought that if it was the natural conclusion of a theme woven carefully through the narrative more people would bring that up as a defence whenever this topic comes up.
Sorry, but that's just silly. If it were brought up as a suggestion that didn't happen, that would be even weirder than it actually happening. As a writer, you don't go around finding reasons to block your character's ideas, because that's a horribly anti-climactic thing to do, teasing your readers for no purpose, but worst of all, you don't get to see how the action pans out if it does happen, which is the primary thing that makes fiction interesting to begin with.
And no, not every action needs foreshadowing either. In the grand scheme of things, this whole scene that people fuss about isn't a major plot point in the book. I read the book twice (though even the second time was a while ago), and I had pretty much forgotten about it, until I saw people complaining it. But it still seems as if you think King has some moral obligation to guard and guide the actions of his characters. He doesn't, and thankfully he doesn't, because his books are more interesting for it.
It is a major plot point in the book. The fact that you skipped over it doesn’t mean that it isn’t.
And to claim that the main thing that makes fiction interesting is every character’s expressed desires being istantly granted is a wild position to take. In this particular instance there are any number of ways you can make a child sexual abuse survivor expressing herself in an unhealthy way into a meaningful, cathartic moment without her go through with what her initial instincts suggest.
Okay, I’ll spend one last reply on this, because I don’t appreciate getting a strawman assigned to me. I didn’t say getting “every character’s expressed desires being instantly granted” is the main thing making fiction interesting. I said it’s seeing actions play out that you normally don’t is what it makes it interesting. That’s quite a different thing.
And no, I still don’t think it’s a major plot point. It’s a plot point, yes, but the movies also left it out without real impact to the plot. That’s not a major plot point to me.
I’ll just quote what you said:
My characterisation of what you said is s lot closer to reality than yours is. Perhaps that’s not what you intended to say, but it is what you did say.
You know the story isn't real, and any "explanation" that makes it seem logical is purely designed by the author, right? She didn't survive anything. King made up a story about a sexual assault survivor and wrote this into it. He could have chosen literally anything else.
Sure, he was being a weird freak of an author and not for the last time.
Doesn't mean it's not outright silly to complain that a child SA survivor has a broken view of sexual norms and what adulthood is.
That's not what people are complaining about. They're complaining about the author wanting to write about that.
It is literally what the comment I responded to was complaining about.
There are plenty of people who are abused at a young age that come to associate sex with giving comfort or thinking its the only way they can help others.
Sure.
There's also choosing to put that into a book. Choosing to put that in a story. Thinking about the psychology of a sexually abused child and thinking "this would go well into my book."
i definitely knew about sex by 12
Same? Like does no one remember being 12, or did they just block it out?
Sure. People can have a mature discussion about real life events. But when you make fantasy stories about children having sex that's a fantasy.
You're making a fantasy. You're writing characters In a fantasy world and having them do this very inappropriate thing. And what makes it weirder is that the writer isn't a child, he's an old man. It's creepy.
And isn't that supposed to be the not creepy part of the book?
Wasn't it because the clown only went after innocent children?
So in order to lose their innocence they had a gang bang.
That sounds very much like a pedophile fantasy.
That's like saying that a lot of people get murdered in Stephen King's stories, so he must have homicidal fantasies.
Horror writers look for ways to shock and shake up their readers, and judging from the comments here, he succeeded.
Jonathan Swift must have really wanted to cannibalize poor children!
I'll never forget bringing that up in a classroom and realizing adults had no idea it was satire.
... This isn't satire and King is in the Epstein files.
This isn't the only pedophile adjacent thing he's written by the way, not even close.
Did I say King's writing was satire? I said Jonathan Swift's short story was satire.
As for King being in the Epstein files, do you have a source for this? I can't seem to find it.
I believe it's heavily implied due to his defense of Epstein.
When did he defend Epstein?
Looks like I misremembered. Specifically, he tweeted that the Epstein list is as real as the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.
Downplaying the existence of a list of highly likely pedophiles doesn't really put you in a good light. :/ But he never directly defended Epstein, as far as I can see. That's my error.
Yep when your job is to shock, gross out and give people very specifically a moral and ethical panic attack
You tend to do some fucked up stuff.
I assumed that there was a reason that he agrees with trump on not releasing the Epstein files.
No, King does not agree with Trump not releasing the Epstein files.
King doesn't believe there is a document that clearly lists who is guilty of being a pedophile because that isn't how long running and successful criminal activity works. They have lists of contacts and hints, which have already been released, but not something so cut and dry as a client list.
Yeah but it's exactly how long running CIA/Mossad blackmail operation works
Even if there is an explicated log book. It's likely filled with worthless pseudonyms, chicken scrawl or some other worthless data.
Making it worthless and basically what we already got
Right. I know that. I assumed the 'list' people were talking about was able to be made with the actual information. Especially with the financial information on where the money was flowing.
The idea that there was 1 specific list that was found isn't the idea being pushed when people say 'Release the Epstein file.' King said he doesn't think a definitive list is real, but we sure do have a lot of information that can be used to create a list. That list can lead to questions that might have valid answers. It will also lead to a lot of pedos...so I'm assuming protecting them is the point of Trump's delay.
King might have his own reason for not wanting a list of people not having to explain their connections with Epstein in the past, but I don't care. Explain it and then move on, if you are innocent. It just feels King is arguing a red herring (about an actual list) instead of the meat and potatoes of going after pedos. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank God for the Beverly's of the world, keeping it all together