this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025
620 points (96.1% liked)

Gaming

3792 readers
948 users here now

!gaming is a community for gaming noobs through gaming aficionados. Unlike !games, we don’t take ourselves quite as serious. Shitposts and memes are welcome.

Our Rules:

1. Keep it civil.


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only.


2. No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia or any other flavor of bigotry.


I should not need to explain this one.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Try not to repost anything posted within the past month.


Beyond that, go for it. Not everyone is on every site all the time.



Logo uses joystick by liftarn

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] drislands@lemmy.world 6 points 41 minutes ago

The problem as I see it is that there is an upper limit on how good any game can look graphically. You can't make a game that looks more realistic than literal reality, so any improvement is going to just approach that limit. (Barring direct brain interfacing that gives better info than the optical nerve)

Before, we started from a point that was so far removed from reality than practically anything would be an improvement. Like say "reality" is 10,000. Early games started at 10, then when we switched to 3D it was 1,000. That an enormous relative improvement, even if it's far from the max. But now your improvements are going from 8,000 to 8,500 and while it's still a big absolute improvement, it's relatively minor -- and you're never going to get a perfect 10,000 so the amount you can improve by gets smaller and smaller.

All that to say, the days of huge graphical leaps are over, but the marketing for video games acts like that's not the case. Hence all the buzzwords around new tech without much to show for it.

[–] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 12 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I don't understand why developers and publishers aren't prioritizing spectacle games with simple graphics like TABS, mount and blade, or similar. Use modern processing power to just throw tons of shit on screen, make it totally chaotic and confusing. Huge battles are super entertaining.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 30 minutes ago

The dream of the '10s/20s game industry was VR. Hyper-realistic settings were supposed to supplant the real world. Ready Player One was what big development studios genuinely thought they were aiming for.

They lost sight of video games as an abstraction and drank too much of their own cyberpunk kool-aid. So we had this fixation on Ray Tracing and AI-driven NPC interactions that gradually lost sight of the gameplay loop and the broader iterative social dynamics of online play.

That hasn't eliminated development in these spheres, but it has bifricated the space between game novelty and game immersion. If you want the next Starcraft or Earthbound or Counterstrike, you need to look towards the indie studios and their low-graphics / highly experimental dev studios (where games like Stardew Valley and Undertale and Balatro live). The AAA studios are just turning out 100 hour long movies with a few obnoxious gameplay elements sprinkled in.

[–] parlaptie@feddit.org 6 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

There's no better generational leap than Monster Hunter Wilds, which looks like a PS2 game on its lowest settings and still chugs at 24fps on my PC.

[–] upandatom@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago

Could've done your research before buying. Companies aren't held to standards bc people are uninformed buyers.

[–] dragonlobster@programming.dev 22 points 5 hours ago

I don't mind the graphics that much, what really pisses me off is the lack of optimization and heavy reliance on frame gen.

[–] PlexSheep@infosec.pub 8 points 4 hours ago

To be fair there isn't just graphics.

Something like Zelda Twilight princess HHD to Zelda Breath of the wild was a huge leap in just gameplay. (And also in graphics but that's not my point)

[–] 2ugly2live@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I feel like we won't be able to see the difference until a couple of years, like CGI in old movies.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 4 points 1 hour ago

The generational leap from PS3 -> PS4 wasn't that significant already, and that happened more than 10 years ago. The biggest difference seem to be lights/shadows and texture size, the latter of which balloons game size and can tank performance

[–] prinzmegahertz@lemm.ee 7 points 7 hours ago

I would argue that late SNES era games look far better than their early 3d era follow ups

[–] kemsat@lemmy.world 9 points 12 hours ago

Games did teach me about diminishing returns though

[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 92 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

This is what a remaster used to look like.

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It was a remake not a remaster. The hit boxes weren’t the same.

[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago

The difference is academic and doesn't affect my point.

[–] Rubanski@lemm.ee 23 points 15 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

I agree whole heartedly

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] hazl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 hours ago

They said we'd never have consumer tech that could white clip in real time but look at us now.

[–] stevedice@sh.itjust.works 42 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I mean, how much more photorealistic can you get? Regardless, the same game would look very different in 4K (real, not what consoles do) vs 1080p.

[–] hlmw@lemm.ee 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

The lighting in that image is far, far from photorealistic. Light transport is hard.

[–] stevedice@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 hours ago

That's true but realistic lightning still wouldn't make anywhere near the same amount of difference that the other example shows.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 41 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (7 children)

Let's compare two completely separate games to a game and a remaster.

Generational leaps then:

Good lord.

EDIT: That isn't even the Zero Dawn remaster. That is literally two still-image screenshots of Forbidden West on both platforms.

Good. Lord.

[–] DODOKING38@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

What game is the first one

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 1 hour ago

Final Fantasy 4 (2 on USA)

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

It appears to be a Final Fantasy game, so likely either 4 or 6 aka 2 or 3 in the US

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 24 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah no. You went from console to portable.

We've had absolutely huge leaps in graphical ability. Denying that we're getting diminishing returns now is just ridiculous.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

We're still getting huge leaps. It simply doesn't translate into massively improved graphics. What those leaps do result in, however, is major performance gains.

I have played Horizon Zero Dawn, its remaster, and Forbidden West. I am reminded how much better Forbidden West looks and runs on PS5 compared to either version of Zero Dawn. The differences are absolutely there, it's just not as spectacular as the jump from 2D to 3D.

The post comes off like a criticism of hardware not getting better enough faster enough. Wait until we can create dirt, sand, water or snow simulations in real time, instead of having to fake the look of physics. Imagine real simulations of wind and heat.

And then there's gaussian splatting, which absolutely is a huge leap. Forget trees practically being arrangements of PNGs--what if each and every leaf and branch had volume? What if leaves actually fell off?

Then there's efficiency. What if you could run Monster Hunter Wilds at max graphics, on battery, for hours? The first gen M1 Max MacBook Pro can comfortably run Baldur's Gate III. Reducing power draw would have immense benefits on top of graphical improvements.

Combined with better and better storage and VR/AR, there is still plenty of room for tech to grow. Saying "diminishing returns" is like saying that fire burns you when you touch it.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 1 hour ago

What those leaps do result in, however, is major performance gains.

Which many devs will make sure you never feel them by "optimizing" the game for only the most bleeding edge hardware

Then there’s efficiency. What if you could run Monster Hunter Wilds at max graphics, on battery, for hours? The first gen M1 Max MacBook Pro can comfortably run Baldur’s Gate III. Reducing power draw would have immense benefits on top of graphical improvements.

See, if the games were made with a performance first mindset, that'd be possible already. Not to dunk on performance gains, but there's a saying that every time hardware gets faster, programmers make their code slower. I mean, you can totally play emulated SNES games with minimal impact compared to leaving the computer idling.

Saying “diminishing returns” is like saying that fire burns you when you touch it.

Unless chip fabrication can figure a way to make transistors "stack" on top of one another, effectively making 3D chips, they'll continue to be "flat" sheets that can only increase core count horizontally. Single core frequency peaked in early 2000s, from then on it's been about adding more cores. Even the gains from a RTX 5090 vs a RTX 4090 aren't that big. Now compare with the gains from a GTX 980 vs a GTX 1080

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

I am reminded how much better Forbidden West looks and runs on PS5 compared to either version of Zero Dawn.

Really? I've played both on PS5 and didn't notice any real difference in performance or graphics. I did notice that the PC Version of Forbidden West has vastly higher minimum requirements though. Which is the opposite of performance gains.

Who the fuck cares if leaves are actually falling off or spawning in above your screen to fall?

And BG3 has notoriously low minimums, it is the exception, not the standard.

If you want to see every dimple on the ass of a horse then that's fine, build your expensive computer and leave the rest of us alone. Modern Next Gen Graphics aren't adding anything to a game.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 14 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

The fact that the Game Boy Advance looks that much better than the Super Nintendo despite being a handheld, battery powered device is insane

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 184 points 1 day ago (45 children)

The question is whether "realism" was ever a good target. The best games are not the most realistic ones.

[–] Dil@is.hardlywork.ing 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

We should be looking at more particles, more dynamic lighting, effects, realism is forsure a goal just not in the way you think, pixar movies have realistic lighting and shadows but arent "realistic"

After I started messing with cycles on blender I went back to wanting more "realistic" graphics, its better for stylized games too

But yeah I want the focus to shift towards procedural generation (I like how houdini and unreal approach it right now), more physics based interactions, elemental interactions, realtime fire, smoke, fluid, etc. Destruction is the biggest dissapointment, was really hoping for a fps that let me spend hours bulldozing and blowing up the map.

[–] mrvictory1@lemmy.world 0 points 47 minutes ago

Destruction is the biggest dissapointment, was really hoping for a fps that let me spend hours bulldozing and blowing up the map.

Ever heard of The Finals?

load more comments (44 replies)
[–] renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net 31 points 20 hours ago (14 children)

This is true of literally any technology. There are so many things that can be improved in the early stages that progress seems very fast. Over time, the industry finds most of the optimal ways of doing things and starts hitting diminishing returns on research & development.

The only way to break out of this cycle is to discover a paradigm shift that changes the overall structure of the industry and forces a rethinking of existing solutions.

The automobile is a very mature technology and is thus a great example of these trends. Cars have achieved optimal design and slowed to incremental progress multiple times, only to have the cycle broken by paradigm shifts. The most recent one is electrification.

load more comments (14 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›