this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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[–] melfie@lemmings.world 15 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It’s quite concerning that something like 37% of the land on this planet is used for agriculture with most of it used for livestock. Biodiversity is being destroyed so we can enjoy a grilled ribeye.

So, I understand the enthusiasm for lab-grown meat. At the same time, I don’t trust big corporations and their captured government agencies to be truthful about the long-term health effects of something like lab-grown meat, and I also expect the positive environmental impact may get overstated to push for outlawing traditional livestock in favor of lab-grown meat for which a handful of big corporations will own patents. Patented seeds for plants that don’t produce viable seeds and lab-grown meat sounds like a good way for corporations to have complete control over humanity’s food supply, more so than they do already.

[–] Mallspice@lemm.ee 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Starting to think a significant portion of rich people genuinely view suffering as an essential if not occult component to the value of their products. Like it means more to them when a thing suffers or dies to produce what they have.

[–] pugsnroses77@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

diamond rings come to mind, i dont know why some people have a bone to pick with lab-grown diamonds, does the horrible labor behind mining make the "real thing" better?

[–] Mallspice@lemm.ee 3 points 5 days ago

Same. To some, yes.

[–] SlimeKnight@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Not just products but life as a whole.

Too many people have the mentality of "If I suffered, you should to", or equate their value to their suffering "Suffering builds character", "You only slept 6 hours? Try 4 like me".

Humanity has an unhealthy obsession with suffering equating validation.

[–] Mallspice@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago

Yes. Hearing about how pre colonial Hawaiians worked like 9-12am and were so efficient they could spend the rest of the day playing, makes me deeply sad to see how far we’ve regressed.

[–] arrow74@lemm.ee 168 points 1 week ago (39 children)

But in all seriousness I would love if lab meats became economically viable.

Imagine being able to have some lab grown mammoth. Enjoy something our ancestors did

[–] MithranArkanere@lemmy.world 81 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The moment corporations see they are cheaper, they'll start pushing for them, exaggerating their benefits like environmental impact as a propaganda tool.

But there would still be slaughtered meats for as long as there are rich assholes paying for "the true experience" or just because it's not something everyone gets to do and they like to feel unique and superior to the rest of humanity.
Knowing those out-of-touch monsters, they'd double down in 'the experience' by getting to slaughter the animal themselves or something like that.

[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 67 points 1 week ago (3 children)

rich assholes paying for “the true experience”

See also: "actually lab diamonds are too perfect, the subtle imperfections and discolorations really enhance the je ne se quoi of blood diamonds"

[–] MithranArkanere@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Yeah. All the things that make them worse at anything actually useful like cutting stuff or heat sinks, somehow make them better for them.

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[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Honestly, that's almost a perfect win. If farming animals for meat becomes something for the 0.01%, imagine how much better things would be. How much less strain we'd put on the planet, and how much animal suffering would be prevented.

And we'd be only a few guillotines away from a full solution.

[–] MithranArkanere@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

You will always need farmers growing cows to constantly produce new 'original samples', tho. But they would have to focus on quality rather than quantity, and the animal would not have to be slaughtered for muscle samples.
So that would keep them from going extinct without humans.

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[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 58 points 1 week ago (15 children)

Meat eating ties into a lot of people conceptions of masculinity. The idea that you might be eating something that didn’t have to die takes the power and dominance out of it - a sexual politics of meat if you will.

I’m not saying this is true of everyone who eats meat - but there is a certain type that this unambiguously true for. Think of the guys with the aviator glasses sitting in the truck pfp - eating dead cow is as American and masculine as fucking women.

(Think about how much the absolutely stupid “if vegs hate meat so much, why do they make fake meat?” sounds like “if lesbians don’t like mean, why do they use dildos?)

[–] StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's... A theory, pretty sure it's more that meat just tastes good though

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago

If you start to look a lot of the advertising is highly masculinized. Meat is definitely masculine in Western culture.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Yes - it is that way for normal people. Notice the amount of qualifiers in my original statement.

There is a disturbing undercurrent to some people’s understanding of meat - to the point where people like Jordan Peterson (others too) have made themselves sick on “carnivore” diets.

I am talking about the kind of people mentioned in the OP that are upset that fake meat options exist. Part of the reason these people are upset - because any rational meat eater would be like cool, more food options - is that they view synthetic meats or even people choosing not to eat meat as an attack on their personal identity, which for these individuals is constructed around this weird patriarchal nationalist thing.

When I get a honey butter chicken biscuit from Whata, I’m doing it because I’m hungry and those things taste like crack. For some men, eating meat is something they have this complex about - you eat a steak because you aren’t a weak little soy boy.

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[–] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 57 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No more farmers, lab grown food! Better for the environment, better for animals. Win win. Farmers in The Netherlands are seriously fucked up, going as far as threatening politicians with murder at their private home. So fuck meat, dairy and egg farmers. We only need fruits and vegetables, and lab grown meat is a nice addition.

[–] MBech 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I didn't find an answer in my very limited search for what is actually used to grow the meat, so depending on what makes up the "stuff" that brings nutrients into the growing part, we may still need a lot of farmers for something like this. There's also no way the growing environment, which seeks to create an artificial "animal", is energyefficient.

I'll celebrate the day we don't need farmers, and I'll celebrate the day it'll be at least environmentally equivolent, but until I see evidence of those things, I'll be very sceptical of this stuff.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

I didn’t find an answer in my very limited search for what is actually used to grow the meat

If you're referencing how cultured meat used to require amniotic fluids to grow meat, those days are long-since passed and there are multiple companies that have proven methodology for production, the only thing preventing large-scale cultured-meat operations is commercial investment and public sentiment.

Your skepticism here is a product of the pushback against lab-grown meat, they have injected endless lies and hyperbolic ideas into the public discourse because it threatens the beef industry, which is currently our least efficient protein source by far, so as the climate changes and as our tarifs turn into gulag-like isolation from the international market, you're basically going to have to choose between $40.00 burgers and laboratory-grown beef that tastes the same but is healthier and cheaper.

Since humans are so easily swayed by the most pathetic arguments and propaganda campaigns, and are so incredibly to make scared, disgusted or hateful of literally anything, I don't expect to see lab-grown meat in my lifetime sadly.

[–] MBech 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but my point is that without more information, I would have to see some actual data to compare this stuff. I am however aware that we won't get reliable data until large-scale production is both possible, and profitable.

It's the same scepticism I have when a new building material says it's much better for the environment, but then it turns out it's either not possible to upscale to the point that it's actually environmentally friendly, because it uses a very limited by-product from a different production. Or it turns out they don't count the materials needed for the underlying construction to make it possible to use, because it's not directly part of the material.

I just want some proper articles about this stuff, with actual numbers and calculations made public, instead of a picture shared on some social media.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

I just want some proper articles about this stuff, with actual numbers and calculations made public, instead of a picture shared on some social media.

It's a commercial venture, so a lot of it is kept behind some level of secrecy because this is capitalism baybeeeee. That said, if you are actually interested in the numbers, you can probably look up organizations like The Good Food Institute who are giving millions in grants to scientific methods for alternative protein sources and they have a public outreach where you can read up on their science and scientists, but if you want technical specs... well, see every other technology like AI, microprocessors, the formulas for popular snacks and and sodas.

[–] galanthus@lemmy.world -4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I reckon it doesn't taste as well, but even if it tasted exactly the same, I would still prefer normal meat. It needs to taste better if you want me to eat it.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Just a serious question here because I'm concerned about public attitudes.

Why exactly do you assume it doesn't taste as well? (Assuming we're talking about current generation cultured meats)

[–] galanthus@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

It just seems like a natural way to think: an imitation is worse than the original.

But I never tried it, and maybe I will, but I would probably prefer normal meat anyway.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There’s also no way the growing environment, which seeks to create an artificial “animal”, is energyefficient.

Why not, could you elaborate on this?

[–] MBech 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

My thought process is that if you have to mimic a living environment, you still need to include most of what the natural environment needs. The one artificial meat I've read about had the meat growing in vats of some "solution" that mimics the natural environment of the meat (so like a body). Granted, the process in the post may not function like this, but if it does, that process would include:

  • Heating, because the meat is actually meat, and the cells require heat to function, which still isn't all that efficient.
  • Getting rid of the artificial meat's dead cells and natural waste.
  • The "solution" itself I imagine is a funny chemical mix of some sort. So getting those chemicals extracted from their sources. (This one is a bit more iffy, I have no idea what the "solution" is, could be demineralised water with beef stock mixed in for all I know).
  • I can't imagine keeping the "solution" as clean as needed for food safety laws around the world is an easy feat coupled with the other points I've listed.

These are all just speculations, please feel free to prove me wrong on any of them, and be sceptical of my list. But this is what I'm sceptical about with the very lacking information in the post.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

The biggest challenge is the bio-reactors, they are hard to scale and require more delicate care than other cultured products because growing muscle, fat and tissue cells is a lot slower than say, getting yeast to reproduce. This a challenge but not a deal-breaker, there are some places already selling cultured meat but it's still expensive (like, $40 for a burger) because of the scaling problems, which again, come from lack of funding and political pressure.

That said, most other challenges are either overcome or there are companies with solid methodology but no investment capital, and since many places are actually banning or outlawing the sale of cultured meat, we likely won't see much actual progress until we get corporations out of politics, so maybe never.

[–] MDCCCLV@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 days ago

Cows right now isn't even grass, they're fed mostly grown crops. The trophic energy loss at each stage is generically 10% , so plants to cow to human you lose 90% of the energy each time. So for eating meat you only get 1% of that energy from the sun. If you ate wolves who ate cows it would be .1%.

For energy this will, once it's at scale, be able to be more energy efficient pretty easily. Because for one cow you have to have the entire life of the parent animal then wait 2 years for the animal to grow up. It has to eat and move around and waste energy that entire time. Less than half of that animal has the desired final product, so you waste more there. So the idea is that with growing this you just start with some cells and then increase their size until you get enough and then package that.

[–] groolthedemon@lemmy.world 50 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Am I the only one that feels bad about how that guy feels about fucking up his marriage? Lol.

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[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 35 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

My vegan perspective: I'm uncomfortable with foods that continue to reproduce the aesthetics of exploitation and probably wouldn't eat it myself. But because it's affect on the world would likely include a sizable reduction in actual real animal exploitation, I'd welcome it's introduction and maybe even promote it to some.

[–] papertowels@mander.xyz 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Curious because you mention aesthetics being key - do you do black bean burgers, beyond burgers, etc?

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Not usually, though I've been in situations where I'm at a bar and that's literally the only vegan option on the menu. I've joked in the past that bean burgers are such a crumbly disasater that they fail to replicate the aesthetics of meat entirely, whereas impossible patties do it so well that I'm paranoid and examining the pattie over and over again and asking the barkeep if he's sure this is the vegan one. Either way they're not my idea of fun.

[–] papertowels@mander.xyz 1 points 6 days ago

Haha those after my experiences with the products as well. Cheers!

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[–] Zgierwoj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Well rn lab grown meat is even worse in terms of CO2 than animal farming, so don't get your hopes up yet. Yeah, sure, it means less animals getting thrown into the torture and murder machine, but if you really want to make a difference it's by convincing peoples to go vegan, at least in this decade

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[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 1 week ago (18 children)

the only reason i'd have an issue with it is because of the markup on most items like this (looking in your direction beyond and morningstar).

if they can have a sustainable and ethical method of creating food then it should be free to everyone who needs it.

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