The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
I've been wondering how does stand your ground work with a force of people not identifiable with guns. There is no way to know if someone is an ICE agent or an impersonator. It doesn't help the police literally just feel for one themselves with the recent murder.
If a person impersonating a cop spouted out some random digits when I asked for their badge and serial number, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.
That's what the call is for- you ask the local office if they can confirm that that officer is actually on patrol, exists, etc. Idk how that would work for ICE though; I don't think you can just call up the federal ICE headquarters.
That's not what the post says. It says call 911 if they refuse. It gives no guidance on what to do if they respond.
The current state of things is that they cover their faces and refuse to give any ID. Even fake ID.
I think if you followed the post suggestion and the result was that ICE would give fake names and fake badge-numbers, that would actually be positive because "agents lie about their identity" is something new and interesting. Then the strategy will need to change, but in the mean time it was useful.
At least with 911 on the phone you can ask to be connected somewhere who can verify
This always makes me think, if you resist an "ice agent" because they have not identified themselves, your not liable right? Like if you go infront of a court wouldn't you have a good case to say, "they didn't identify themselves, I thought I might be assaulted or kidnapped by someone"
Your first mistake was assuming you would be allowed to see a court.
There is a reason why they suspend due process.
You are being kidnapped.
They are cowards and likely not actual police.
Utterly delusional to think any of that would work. At every step you would just get your face beaten in. When the cops come they too will just beat your face in.
Thinking you can castle doctrine a squad of ICE agents is equally delusional. You could probably take a couple out but you'd still die in the end and be risking the lives of anyone that lives with you.
The only solution is well known and already in practice in places like LA: have an active community response force that will show up and intimidate and harass the ICE agents. All of the previous delusions assume you, alone, can stop an ICE with just your privledge.
It happened at one of the protests. Someone asked one of the officers for their badge number and got their head battered.
If you can't stop them, taking as many out with you as you can is not the worst option.
Folks also need to be tearing down the local deathcamps, and rescuing the people still alive in them.
No badges, no uniforms, driving unmarked cars and wearing masks? I think any person could successfully argue in court that they thought they were being kidnapped by criminals.
You're still thinking as if due process and legality matters
You never get to court, that's the point the previous comment is making.
As an individual trying to stand up to them you're somewhere between being either completely ineffectual or making the situation worse. Having the law on your side doesn't matter because it's impossible for you to summon the enforcement of it fast enough to help you, assuming they even would.
A local community response that will mobilize and appear in your neighborhood in seconds is basically the only way to respond quickly with enough force for them to care about.
The people in LA Matt have been tracking and following the ice vehicles to some extent. We need that everywhere.
Next protest literally everyone should dress up in the same outfit the ICE officers dress in. Who would they arrest?
I was in autopilot reading this like don't dress like cops then I remembered the cops aren't dressing like cops. (I'm very sleepy.)
Skip straight to step 3. Just call 911. These guys aren't fucking around, and neither should you.
Ideally while having someone who isn't you record the interaction, so when they drop you to the pavement and your phone 'regrettably' gets smashed to pieces, there's still some external record of what went down.