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~~Federal immigration officer~~
State sponsored terrorist paramilitary.
FTFY
So if you defend yourself from these savages.. how would a jury hold that up in court WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT?!?!
Jury nullification would be in the rise if this ever actually ended up in court.
or a grand jury. but something tells me the proposed action would never see charges, just vengeance.
Ironically that makes them easier to identify.
Easier to identify that they're ICE but still impossible to make a complaint or hold anyone accountable.
Hopefully easier to shoot.
Hopefully also harder for them to complain back.
They don't need to complain? They just put you in the van and disappear you.
This would be interesting in the stand your ground and open carry states. Unmarked car pulls into a driveway, unidentifiable armed masked goons jump out and they run straight into a hornets nest.
"Interesting" is one way to put it. In reality anyone who practices and abides by these established doctrines to protect their freedoms will be tried for treason because they dared stand up to the undercover gestapo.
This is why they only harass blue states. ICE wouldn't dare pull this shit in Texas. So many of them would get shot simply for stepping on someone's property.
God please let this happen, it would be so funny.
Yeah it's a fascist country, and that's not a figure of speech. What could happen, they are backed by the army, thw FBI, the president, the supreme court. Seriously american leftist friends, run while you can, it will get worse, they will come after you.
They can come and get it. This is our county too. I ain't going anywhere.
And go where?
Run with what skills and money?
There's going to be a point where the sole goal of escape is more important than what skills and money an individual has. If you can empathize with that then congratulations I believe that is the refugee experience.
If you see a van or SUV without plates please call the cops on them.
The driver answers
Are cops allowed to protect their citizens from these guys?
I mean today ICE even tear gassed a bunch of Chicago cops who were trying to clear a path out for them. The ICE thugs are cowards and will turn on local police in a heartbeat. (See also capitol police beaten on Jan 6.)
Sauce? Wanna see this
Yes, but they are obliged to. Police has no duty to protect or serve anyone, as per law.
Theoretically, what would happen if an armed US citizen was confused or scared and thought he was being kidnapped. The perpetrators refused to identify, and he shot and killed them. They weren't dressed properly and were trying to put him in an unmarked, unlicensed vehicle.
honest answer: they will be shot and killed in return. in the rare case they are not killed they will be given the most lacking “proper trial” possible. even in castle doctrine states with no obligation to retreat, things like the 2nd amendment are only really (in effect) applicable on a civilian to civilian case. The state will always “extra judicially” take care to shock and awe in retaliation. cf: philly move bombing, waco, and the recent bombing of “drug runner boats” in international waters.
That is the answer, and I don't think confusion would play any part here.
If the kidnapping victim in this scenario somehow survives, they'll surely be held in custody pending trial. When it comes to legal firearm use, they would need to make the case that A) they reasonably felt in imminent danger for their lives, and B) that they acted to eliminate the threat. Even in an ideal world where a jury acquits them, they still get to live with "I killed someone".
If you're carrying, you have to have already been doing everything right before any incident where you are forced to eliminate a threat to your person. If you did anything provocative, you're fucked. After the threat is eliminated, you need to stop shooting, because if you take any harmful action after threats have been eliminated, you're fucked.
But the fact is that if you're in that situation, where you have to draw and fire, there's going to be multiple people (threats) on you. The odds that you are able to eliminate all of those threats before being killed yourself are low.
Self defense applies to other selves, as well. Not just your unique self. It extends to other people. Meaning YOU don't have to be the one in danger.
Yes this is true. It also adds an extra layer of “are you making the right decision”, so take extra care.
Depends on the laws of the specific state.
or they try to carjack you, and use your car to run them over, or defend yourself.
That would be clear self-defense, but they would be jailed for life in El Salvador or some shit nonetheless because rule of law is crumbling in this country
Oh, no. They would be shot.
The muppets in the Federal government are trying their hardest to make this occur so they can try and find some loophole to go ahead with their martial law plans to arrest all the people they don't like that week. What we're likely seeing is mature restraint on behalf of firearm owners.
Some years back, the quote was something like, "as soon as you discharge your weapon, you are looking at spending at least $10,000 from legal fees" (if you don't have firearm insurance and/or if it would even be applicable) - that number is probably tenfold now. Not to mention the very likely personal harm others have mentioned.
Legal fees or not, being dead is pretty hard to come back from.
It's bound to happen eventually, so we'll find out
This article talked about how what ICE was doing was illegal, but didn't ask anyone on the police force if they'd enforce the law against them.
If you see a vehicle with no license plates & it’s doing anything even remotely unusual (speeding, driving erratically, etc) then call 911 and report it. If it’s driving erratically then tell 911 that you’re concerned the driver could be drunk etc. given the behavior you’re witnessing.
Sporting the kidnapper look even more on point. Ask them the secret word or run
That still leaves the VIN at the drivers side dashboard
But what does that get us? This is secret police in 2025. Masked, unmarked, unidentifiable and kidnapping people to unknown and untraceable locations. Often just straight out of the country. How is this not a bigger deal