this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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How far can cities go to clear homeless camps? The U.S. Supreme Court will decide (wamu.org)
submitted 2 years ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
63 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

In April, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear a major case that could reshape how cities manage homelessness. The legal issue is whether they can fine or arrest people for sleeping outside if there’s no shelter available. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has deemed this cruel and unusual punishment, and this case is a pivotal challenge to that ruling.

The high court declined to take up a similar case in 2019. But since then, homelessness rates have climbed relentlessly. Street encampments have grown larger and have expanded to new places, igniting intense backlash from residents and businesses. Homelessness and the lack of affordable housing that’s helping to drive it have become key issues for many voters.

The case, Grants Pass v. Johnson, could have dramatic implications for the record number of people living in tents and cars across the United States.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 75 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Oh good. With this SCOTUS, I assume they'll declare it open hunting season on homeless people.

I fucking hate it. I mean read this shit-

The legal issue is whether they can fine or arrest people for sleeping outside if there’s no shelter available.

FINE people who can't even afford a home when they have NO CHOICE but to sleep outside. And this even reaches SCOTUS? It wasn't immediately laughed out of court? Not in America.

I live some distance out of town near a highway. I have to drive over a small bridge to get into town. The bridge is still not in town, there's farm fields next to it. But there's a sign next to the bridge, in English and Spanish, that says 'no trespassing.' To be clear, this isn't some person putting it on their land, this is an official county government sign. And yes, before the sign went up, people were sleeping under there.

These people have nowhere to go. You can't even argue that they're wanted as bodies for the industrial prison system, because they usually aren't arrested, just chased off. And apparently given fines they can't afford now.

I honestly have no idea what cities and counties expect these people to do.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There are a bunch of common sense principles that you'd think would be obvious to anyone but apparently aren't reflected in any laws. One of those principles is that nobody should ever be penalized for something beyond their control.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

They would just find some way to claim that it wasn't beyond their control because they didn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps or whatever.

It wouldn't totally solve homelessness, but it would go a big way towards it if we offered housing, a UBI, and medical, rehab and psychological care free of charge. But this is America.

[–] Cosmocrat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (11 children)

I feel conflicted, I have been noticing a homeless camp growing very close to my neighborhood and they are absolutely trashing the area, letting their dogs run loose in the streets. I want to sympathize with them but they harbor no respect for themselves or their environment.

[–] Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago

You're surprised that people with no food, no shelter, no stability in life have poor manners? You're surprised they don't respect the society that has made them homeless and criminalized them for it?

I'm confused here. You understand this is why the left wants to give them homes food and stability, because people who lack those things are going to destroy themselves and everything around them. People who HAVE those things can often become contributing members of society in a few years.

They don't have to EARN shelter and food, we give it to them because it helps US AND THEM. It's cheaper and more ethical. Our current system pays extra to torture the homeless because people like you are "conflicted" and expect the homeless to behave themselves before we help them.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 56 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Yes, charging them money for the crime of not having enough money should solve the issue! Then we can pay to house them in prison instead of paying to house them in housing where they might have gotten a job.

[–] SuiXi3D@kbin.social 28 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Oh, they’ll have a job in prison, too. They just won’t get paid to do it.

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They get paid for it but it's like 13¢ an hour.

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[–] Leviathan@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Slavery is always the goal.

[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago (1 children)

None of this is an accident. This is literally war against poor people.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

More prisoners = more slave labor.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 27 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Instead of fines or arrests, how about accommodation?

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago

"House the homeless? I'd much rather my tax money go to buying tanks for the police." - Average NIMBY

[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

But that would cost rich people money. Can’t have that.

I mean you don’t get rich without exploiting people. You don’t get rich being morally responsible.

This is literally a war. It’s rich vs poor.

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[–] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

This is going to end up with crucifixion being legalized.

[–] CluckN@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

They should legalize crucifixion but only for people who don’t return the shopping trolley.

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[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I’m no expert, but making it illegal doesn’t seem like a solution to homelessness.

Except of course they aren’t looking for a solution. That’d explain a lot.

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[–] BlackNo1@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (4 children)

OH MY FUCKING GOD HOUSE THEM

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[–] apendleton@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Bell Riots, here we come.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

I am curious how they will rule. On one hand the Catholics are going to be told to not go after the homeless on the other hand Alito and Clarence are going to get a donation from the Chamber of Commerce.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago

Supreme Court about to legalize homeless hunting licenses.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh the supreme Court? So flamethrowers?

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

But powered by oil made from ~~human~~ homeless fatty tissues.

So a biofuel, is good for you. Unless you look at your landlord funny, then it's a bit harmful to you.

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

It's the new BEFNG ones, you're fine. Unless you're at the other end

[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

It's not a war against homelessness. It's a war against the homeless.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Hunting them down for sport wins 6 votes against 3

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

... so it's the USA supreme court that comes up with Soylent Green recipe?

Actually kinda makes sense.

[–] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The “problem” has gotten worse and is not just in the big cities. It is going on everywhere. A lot of these people just want their freedom to “be”. Most of the cities just want them to leave. If you offer them services, they will have to want them or at least follow the minimum rules at a facility (like be sober) to stay there. Some just aren’t going to do it. Period. I speak as a recovering alcoholic and know this to be true. I don’t think municipalities want them dead, they just want them to be somewhere else. Do they have the right to push them out? Will be an interesting case to follow.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

There is no "somewhere else" for them to go to, just a bunch of other places where people don't want them either. Seems like everywhere in America just wants to shuffle homeless people around without doing much (or often anything) to actually solve the problem.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago

There's nothing a city can realistically do except shuffle them around - providing assistance simply motivates more homeless people to arrive from other places until the assistance is exhausted and the city is left worse off, with less money and more homeless people.

[–] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What do you suggest?

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Not criminalizing homelessness for starters.

The actual solution is to prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place, but that would be "socialism" and therefore too unpopular to actually implement. But housing-first solutions seem to work great every time they're tried.

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[–] Leviathan@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

How far? Like housing them and treating their physical and mental health issues? Legalizing drugs so that we don't criminalize addiction? Can you really go to far too help people in need?

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